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Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

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Defiance
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Defiance » 14 May 2017, 13:08

It's not unlikely to see a numbers cut IMO. RUSI have said they believe there'll be a mini review post election in light of the weakening of the £

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby bobp » 14 May 2017, 19:04

Janes is reporting this and saying it looks like the number is 38 now.
http://www.janes.com/article/70331/boei ... e-standard

LordJim
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby LordJim » 15 May 2017, 00:46

Retaining 38 would not be a problem but it is a scenario that is going to impact many programmes with numbers being cut and programmes stretched to try to keep the spending programme on track. Whether we see additional Apaches post 2025 in a the next spending programme is open for debate.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Tinman » 15 May 2017, 01:36

bobp wrote:Janes is reporting this and saying it looks like the number is 38 now.
http://www.janes.com/article/70331/boei ... e-standard



12 new builds will be purchased.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby dmereifield » 15 May 2017, 06:29

Tinman wrote:
bobp wrote:Janes is reporting this and saying it looks like the number is 38 now.
http://www.janes.com/article/70331/boei ... e-standard



12 new builds will be purchased.


How confident of that are you? Any idea when they will be purchased?

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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 15 May 2017, 09:20

Tinman wrote:
bobp wrote:Janes is reporting this and saying it looks like the number is 38 now.
http://www.janes.com/article/70331/boei ... e-standard



12 new builds will be purchased.


Why? Are 12 of the current 50 so knackered they can't migrate components like the others...?
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Tinman » 15 May 2017, 10:45

Gabriele wrote:
Tinman wrote:
bobp wrote:Janes is reporting this and saying it looks like the number is 38 now.
http://www.janes.com/article/70331/boei ... e-standard


Do a bit of research about the op tempo on Herrick. There are some very very shagged out cabs.


12 new builds will be purchased.


Why? Are 12 of the current 50 so knackered they can't migrate components like the others...?

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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 15 May 2017, 11:04

"Cabs" mean nothing: remanufacture does away with the old cab in all cases, and puts the stuff in a wholly new airframe.

Engines are out in the british case, due to the Army wanting the new US engines. So those do not matter either.

What moves across is the targeting head, the gun, the radar, some other systems and bits. If out of 66 cabs, only 38 can be rebuilt, it means the Army already has 38 machines at most despite declaring 50.
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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 15 May 2017, 11:38

Gareth Jennings says the MOD confirmed to him and Jane's that the missing contract for 12 more remanufactures is to follow, nothing has changed and all deliveries will still complete in 2024.
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~UNiOnJaCk~
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 15 May 2017, 12:03

Some better news at least...

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 May 2017, 21:37

Does that
"UK will buy 50 AH-64Es, remanufactured avionics. Contract for remaining 12 to come."
quantify how much the saving was from buying remanufactured rather than new?
- ie, buying new would have left the number at 50?

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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 15 May 2017, 21:42

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Does that
"UK will buy 50 AH-64Es, remanufactured avionics. Contract for remaining 12 to come."
quantify how much the saving was from buying remanufactured rather than new?
- ie, buying new would have left the number at 50?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Does that
"UK will buy 50 AH-64Es, remanufactured avionics. Contract for remaining 12 to come."
quantify how much the saving was from buying remanufactured rather than new?
- ie, buying new would have left the number at 50?




The missing 12 are not yet on contract because they are outside the current Multi Year period, which only goes up to FY-2021. I don't think "new buy" as in purely new buy, was ever an option. Because it makes no sense to purchase new.
It was always going to be a remanufacture, because if you already have Apaches, it makes far more sense to remanufacture than build new, so you can move across everything that is still valid (radars, sensor turrets, the gun...).

The confusion chiefly comes from the fact that the remanufactured Apache come with, actually, a new build airframe. This, and the MOD vagueness, kept a lot of people wondering and mixing things up all this time.
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Tinman » 16 May 2017, 10:11

Extra engines also being bought.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby dmereifield » 16 May 2017, 10:14

Tinman wrote:Extra engines also being bought.


And apparently, the additional 12 will actually be new builds?

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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 16 May 2017, 10:43

Remanufactures. All 50 are remanufactures.
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dmereifield
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby dmereifield » 16 May 2017, 11:34

Gabriele wrote:Remanufactures. All 50 are remanufactures.


Thanks for the info, I guess the source I read (twitter, seemed like a legit defence commentator/correspondent) must have been wrong

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Tinman » 17 May 2017, 11:04

dmereifield wrote:
Tinman wrote:Extra engines also being bought.


And apparently, the additional 12 will actually be new builds?

Source at Janes.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby bobp » 12 Jun 2017, 14:32

More news about the Apache order here:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... build.html

Beginning to wonder if 38 is the final number?

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby LordJim » 12 Jun 2017, 18:21

I we are looking for savings and only decide we need 2 Regiments then 38 does the job.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Smokey » 12 Jun 2017, 18:32

LordJim wrote:I we are looking for savings and only decide we need 2 Regiments then 38 does the job.


Still need a training fleet for operational conversion courses, though.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby LordJim » 13 Jun 2017, 06:35

In a fleet that size one of the squadrons in the non high readiness Regiment will have that responsibility with each Regiment having a number of qualified instructors.

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whitelancer
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby whitelancer » 13 Jun 2017, 21:47

What happens when both Regiments are deployed?

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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 13 Jun 2017, 21:47

There no longer is a regiment "non at readiness" unless you change the requirement and force generation cycle yet again. Currently, 3 Regiment supports 3rd Division, with two squadrons, one for each of the Army 2020 Refine brigades at readiness, while 4 Regiment permanently supports 16 Air Assault (664 Sqn) and 3 Commando (656 Sqn).

653 became a permanent Conversion To Role training unit; 654 was disbanded in 2014.
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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Postby Gabriele » 25 Jun 2017, 13:03

The MOD contracted Leonardo for modifications to the current HIDAS to enable its migration on the remanufactured Apache Block III: https://www.publictenders.net/node/3856157
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