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Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

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dmereifield
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby dmereifield » 24 Jan 2017, 23:12

arfah wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Does anyone know how many of these we are looking to purchase?
400... ish.


Thanks. I thought it was going to be more than that

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jan 2017, 04:53

Well, the protected mobility prgrm aims to get all UORred vehicles out of service by 2030 (abt) so it could well be more
- also Foxhound and Panther are covered, even though they did not come in as UOR items, and might have slightly later ISDs

The numbers pale in comparison with the non-protected but otherwise similar vehicles, which numbered 6000plus when the MRV(P) prgrm was started. Lots has happened in-between, though:
"terms of reference for Army 2020 were;

To develop and recommend options, starting from first principles, for the design, structure, capabilities and capacities of an integrated Army of 2020 – that importantly – would be designed to cost and deliver the 20 per cent saving required.

In charge of the study to decide how to get from A to B was Lt General Nick Carter, Director General Land Warfare."

Cutting down from 120k to 82k is more than 20%, but
- Reserves being boosted costs some, too. especially when the stated aim was (is?) for them to have the same (std of) kit as the Regulars, for the pairing of units to work
- The Gurkhas are not included in the often quoted Regular numbers and The Bde (of) is being rebuilt after initially getting the same "treatment". The RM are not "army regulars" either.
- and the "hollow middle" between heavy and light is being filled, for which the average cost of vehicle (with the notable exception of Ajax) should be well down from those required to rejuvenate the heavy formations - the latter being effectively "life extended" rather than renewed, under the cost constraints.

So, the MRV(P) decision, to me at least, is very welcome; now let us get on with the MIV as enough of speccing, evaluation and testing has been done.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Defiance » 25 Jan 2017, 08:13

Request for Oshkosh JLTV officially made

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/bri ... hkosh-jltv

Talbot Rice told an audience of industry executives and military personnel at the International Armoured Vehicles conference in London on Tuesday that the Army had opted for the single-source purchase due to its ability to meet UK requirements and its value for money.

"The price point the Pentagon had achieved for a (US) production run of up to 55,000‎ was not going to be matched by other contenders. On the basis of the assessment on price and value for money, we made the case to go the FMS route," he said.

Subject to final approval of the deal from both sides of the Atlantic, a sale will mark the first export success for the Oshkosh Defense-designed vehicle destined to replace the Humvee in US Army and US Marine Corps service starting in 2019‎.

...

The British purchase is part of the Multi-Role Vehicle-Protected (MRV-P) program. JTLV will meet a requirement for troop-carrying and other light duties.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jan 2017, 08:26

Defiance wrote:JTLV will meet a requirement for troop-carrying and other light duties.


MRV-P is easy as 1,2,3... no it is not, or just careless wording;
- has the requirement 2 now been restricted in scope (and therefore quantity) as it was for a bigger vehicle for troop carrying and ambulance
- now the former is mentioned in the already decided order?

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Gabriele » 25 Jan 2017, 09:31

MRV-P Phase 1 is the one to be met by JLTV and it is essentially a general purpose vehicle carrying 4-5 men. And that's all JLTV can do.

MRV-P Phase 2 is about 6x6 platforms, of which the Troop Carrier is to carry 2 + 6 and the other is the battlefield ambulance.
I'm not sure what a 6-man dismount team is for. Is it really a gun-towing vehicle and/or a mover for specialized teams, such as Joint Fires Support Teams...?

Then there is the Lightweight Recovery Vehicle requirement.

Aside from the horrendous proliferation of small fleets within fleets in the British Army, i continue to be absolutely confused about Foxhound. Did it turn out to be crap? What are they doing with it? If the Light Mechanized battalions are all going back to Light Role, who is going to get it? Surely it could be used to cover Phase 1 if it has no other roles...?
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jan 2017, 09:57

Gabriele wrote:MRV-P Phase 2 is about 6x6 platforms, of which the Troop Carrier is to carry 2 + 6 and the other is the battlefield ambulance.


That is how it was... and still is?

Gabriele wrote:Is it really a gun-towing vehicle and/or a mover for specialized teams

- Pinzgauer is unprotected (Vector did not turn out too well, when they tried to change that)
- a few in that role would not hurt; then again there are plenty of other than assault engineers/ sappers (who have proper armour) in the immediate vicinity of FEBA that would benefit from moving around somewhat protected

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby RunningStrong » 25 Jan 2017, 21:32

Gabriele wrote:MRV-P Phase 2 is about 6x6 platforms, of which the Troop Carrier is to carry 2 + 6 and the other is the battlefield ambulance.
I'm not sure what a 6-man dismount team is for. Is it really a gun-towing vehicle and/or a mover for specialized teams, such as Joint Fires Support Teams...?

Whilst this makes perfect sense, I'm not sure it's entirely certain. More than a few 4x4 vehicles still doing the publicity rounds on the premise of MRV-P.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jan 2017, 21:35

RunningStrong wrote:More than a few 4x4 vehicles still doing the publicity rounds


Just the volume of the body; mobility can be tested against each other, so no need to specify how te traction is to be achieved.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Gabriele » 25 Jan 2017, 21:41

Whilst this makes perfect sense, I'm not sure it's entirely certain. More than a few 4x4 vehicles still doing the publicity rounds on the premise of MRV-P.


That's normal. While JLTV is seen as a clear favorite, it hasn't been formally picked yet, and a FMS sale request does not a contract make, but merely a passage of the process and an estimate of the cost. Technically, the army could well still select Eagle 4x4 instead of JLTV.
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby shark bait » 27 Jan 2017, 08:00

dmereifield wrote:Thanks. I thought it was going to be more than that


It will be eventually, this is just a first round. However considering the British Army look focused on diverging their scattered fleet even further expect them to buy something else completely different in the future.
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 27 Jan 2017, 08:43

shark bait wrote:considering the British Army look focused on diverging their scattered fleet even further


Yep, we have to decide what we want to be compatible with. Panther is a sad expression of wanting to be compatible with other nations contingents on EU peace making/ keeping missions.

Cross-referencing another thread:
For Miv
- both Boxer and AMV would be preferable because of the modular design (as of today, more versions of the AMV)
- however, buying the French one (with some Mk.2 UK-specced modifications) would make us compatible within the Joint Expeditionary Force, and save sending REME twice over (whatever their French equivalent has as a designation)

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby RetroSicotte » 27 Jan 2017, 12:36

http://www.janes.com/article/67246/uk-c ... -for-mrv-p

It is expected that around 750 JLTVs will be bought as part of MRV-P Group 1. When pressed for delivery timelines Maj Gen Talbot Rice declined to provide a date, however he stated that UK deliveries could be expected to follow shortly after US full rate production deliveries begin, a decision for which is expected by the Pentagon in 2018.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby bobp » 27 Jan 2017, 14:15

That appears to be good news, if the numbers are correct.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby dmereifield » 27 Jan 2017, 14:52

And down to 3 for the 6x6 for Group 2, apparently:

"MRV-P Group 2, which seeks a larger 6x6 platform for specialist roles, including armoured personnel carrier (APC) and protected ambulance, is also understood to have progressed with three contenders reported to remain in competition, understood to be Mercedes-Benz with the FGA 14.5 fitted with an MRV-P specific body; General Dynamics with the EAGLE V; and Thales with the Bushmaster"

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Mercator » 05 Mar 2017, 00:31

Some details of Thales' Bushmaster offering for MRV-P:

Ian Gethin, Thales Australia's director of marketing and sales operations for its armaments and protected vehicles division, told Shephard that the Bushmaster would be despatched to the UK soon so it could take part in upcoming evaluations.

The demonstrator, painted in a green camouflage scheme, is the first to feature front doors. The Australian Army did not want cab doors on its Bushmaster fleet, so this required some reengineering to meet British requirements.

The MRV-P demonstrator has six seats in the troop compartment, plus it has an alternative storage arrangement whereby lockers are replaced by a rack that accommodates storage boxes.

The door at the rear of the vehicle is also wider, this being the same as that fitted to Australian Defence Force (ADF) ambulances. The Bushmaster also features armour of the style fitted on Dutch vehicles.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/land ... -vehicles/

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Antipod » 05 Mar 2017, 02:48

Gabriele wrote:i continue to be absolutely confused about Foxhound. Did it turn out to be crap? What are they doing with it? If the Light Mechanized battalions are all going back to Light Role, who is going to get it? Surely it could be used to cover Phase 1 if it has no other roles...?


Anyone know the status/future of foxhound? How many wound up in service, who uses them, and for what? Is it still in production/available?

It seems like a capable piece of kit, with decent protection and mobility, the potential for all sorts of modular cleverness, and some useful payoffs in terms of U.K. industrial capacity. Too expensive? Or are/were there other issues? (Ha! Not sure if I should speak of it in the past or present tense...)

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Gabriele » 05 Mar 2017, 09:30

400 purchased, but a few are write offs, so there are, like... 390, something like that. I believe deliveries are over, but the production line is still there, as GD still offers them on the market.
For sure it is expensive: the British Army essentially paid them one million pounds each.

As of now they are used by Light Protected Mobility infantry battalions. Army 2020 included 6 such battalions. But Army 2020 Refine seems to reconvert all of those to Light Role infantry, and the future role of Foxhound is a question mark, for all i know.
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby marktigger » 05 Mar 2017, 12:54

storage with any luck or looking at other things in the UK Kinnegar might be a good place to store them As I suspect there might be a requirement for them and 5 roulemont bns.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Frenchie » 06 Mar 2017, 10:33

I don't know why ACMAT does not offer its Bastion HM, which is a combat vehicle of 14.5 tonnes for 340 hp, a payload of 4.5 tonnes and a very good all-terrain capability, with a armoured monocoque, a internal volume of 8.5m3, as well as excellent protection with an armor and ballistic glass level 3, anti-mine protection levels 2a/2b, unit cost 400.000$. It is at least as well as a Bushmaster.

http://www.acmat.eu/content/download/3247/16905/version/1/file/Fiche-BASTION+HM-EN-BD.pdf

http://www.acmat.eu/content/download/2914/15328/version/2/file/Fiche-BASTION2-LD.pdf.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Smokey » 11 Jul 2017, 11:30

This has just been posted on UKDJ.

2,747 units to be purchased.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-purc ... lion-deal/

https://oshkoshdefense.com/jltv/

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 11 Jul 2017, 11:43

Any news on the heavy part ( a 6-wheeler?) of the prgrm, where the quantities being talked about are under 10% of the now announced (light)

REF from over a year back "Protected (MRV-P) Troop Carrying Vehicles (TCV) and a Future Protected Battlefield Ambulance (FPBFA) for the British Army have been initiated. Details were provided in a contract notice from the UK MoD on 2 February, but the numbers expected are fewer than initially planned..."

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Smokey » 11 Jul 2017, 11:45

Nothing seen, so far.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 11 Jul 2017, 17:24

There has to be some massive cock-up with those numbers. 2,747? Really? I don't think so....

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby Gabriele » 11 Jul 2017, 17:30

Not in one go, for sure, but those are the numbers if you want MRV-P to have one sense and eventually replace several of the small fleets of today.
The number requested is the one good news in there. Shows that the army is finally thinking long-term, at least.
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 11 Jul 2017, 17:38

Gabriele wrote:Not in one go, for sure, but those are the numbers if you want MRV-P to have one sense and eventually replace several of the small fleets of today.
The number requested is the one good news in there. Shows that the army is finally thinking long-term, at least.


Agreed, but i wasn't even aware that final fleet numbers were intended to approach anywhere like those sorts of numbers? If accurate then we can finally say with some certainty that the much-needed consolidation of the Army's light vehicle inventory will finally go ahead, like you say.

Interesting armament options available too, could help solve the Army's fire generation deficit.


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