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Ground Based Air Defence

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
Spinflight
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Spinflight » 17 Dec 2016, 01:05

Anyone know why we're deploying Giraffe's and CAMM to the Falklands?

A ground based radar with impressive anti-stealth capability plus our latest SAM seems like an awful lot of overkill considering Argentina doesn't even appear to have an airforce anymore.

Tinman
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tinman » 17 Dec 2016, 18:26

To deter any future aggression from the Argies or proxies.

bobp
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby bobp » 17 Dec 2016, 18:34

Spinflight wrote:A ground based radar with impressive anti-stealth capability


What Anti Stealth capability?

RetroSicotte
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby RetroSicotte » 17 Dec 2016, 18:40

If there's anywhere in the world to best test a SAM system, it's the Falklands. That place is nightmarishly difficult for missiles to operate in, lot of geographic and weather effects to deal with. That'd be my guess. Easy access for terrain to allows the Typhoons to try out very nasty approaches on it too and see how it copes.

Spinflight
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Spinflight » 18 Dec 2016, 05:48

bobp wrote:What Anti Stealth capability?


Gallium nitride based radar.


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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby bobp » 18 Dec 2016, 09:18

Good video. Is that the model the UK is buying. The previous ones where on a mast.

Spinflight
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Spinflight » 18 Dec 2016, 10:02

Yeah we bought more of them a few years back, and also arranged for our existing ones to be upgraded.

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Timmymagic » 18 Dec 2016, 11:30

Spinflight wrote:Yeah we bought more of them a few years back, and also arranged for our existing ones to be upgraded.


Is it?

All the reports I've seen on UK Giraffe purchases have been the Giraffe AMB model, which is on a mast, not the Giraffe 4A that uses GaN.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Dec 2016, 11:52

Angling... and hook

Tumbleweed
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tumbleweed » 18 Dec 2016, 12:02

New joiner here, the the UK fleet is the AMB variant, not sure if the 4A is in service yet or who it is destined for.

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Timmymagic » 18 Dec 2016, 12:28

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Angling... and hook

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Angling... and hook


True dat

Frenchie
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Frenchie » 18 Dec 2016, 13:25

I don't know if this is interesting for you but the 54th Regiment of Artillery has Sherpa 3A equipped with the MPCV system of MBDA.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/multi-purpose-combat-vehicle-mpcv/


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Gabriele
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Gabriele » 18 Dec 2016, 14:08

British Giraffe Radars are the AMB kind, upgraded to standard C and with very small target detection, for mini-UAVs tracking.

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marktigger
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby marktigger » 18 Dec 2016, 14:44

i wonder will they move into Mortar Locating role as well?

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby marktigger » 18 Dec 2016, 14:47

RA 300 parade
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Tumbleweed
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tumbleweed » 18 Dec 2016, 16:15

Gabriele wrote:British Giraffe Radars are the AMB kind, upgraded to standard C and with very small target detection, for mini-UAVs tracking.



That must be the ELSS system that DSTL were looking at last year. Has it been confirmed that it has been added to Mod C? The main update is that the sensor will be used as the FCR for Landceptor, or whatever its being called this week.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Dec 2016, 16:50

Tumbleweed wrote:the sensor will be used as the FCR for Landceptor, or whatever its being called this week.


What else is there in place, to do that? It is time to move on from bde level deconflictation and then, at the next level, v local anti-mortar/ counter-btry and AD FC radars to something with better coverage, properly networked and multi-function.

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tumbleweed » 18 Dec 2016, 16:58

ArmChairCivvy wrote:What else is there in place, to do that? It is time to move on from bde level deconflictation and then, at the next level, v local anti-mortar/ counter-btry and AD FC radars to something with better coverage, properly networked and multi-function.


Agreed, if I understand you correctly, but isn't that what this is for?

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/uk/what ... ision.html

Gabriele wrote:Image

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Dec 2016, 17:08

It is time to move on from bde level deconflictation


You made (one part of) my point for me:
"In 2008 Lockheed Martin UK led Team Athena signed a contract with the UK’s Ministry of Defence to provide the British Army with a state of the art situational awareness and battlespace management capability called the Land Environment Air Picture Provision (LEAPP). The LEAPP contract, worth over £100million, will see systems delivered from 2012"

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tumbleweed » 18 Dec 2016, 17:18

ArmChairCivvy wrote:You made (one part of) my point for me:
"In 2008 Lockheed Martin UK led Team Athena signed a contract with the UK’s Ministry of Defence to provide the British Army with a state of the art situational awareness and battlespace management capability called the Land Environment Air Picture Provision (LEAPP). The LEAPP contract, worth over £100million, will see systems delivered from 2012"


Whats that? The kit is now in service, hence why the radar was at RA300!

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Dec 2016, 17:24

Tumbleweed wrote:at the next level, v local anti-mortar/ counter-btry and AD FC radars


A far as I know this kit (the next two parts of my point) are scheduled to go out of service fairly soon?

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tumbleweed » 18 Dec 2016, 17:37

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Tumbleweed wrote:at the next level, v local anti-mortar/ counter-btry and AD FC radars


A far as I know this kit (the next two parts of my point) are scheduled to go out of service fairly soon?


Not sure about OSD for MAMBA, LCMR and ASP, but I thought they all had a good few years left. Outside of the LEAPP sensors what AD radars do land have now? Rapier is only in the Falklands and the HVM equipped units only have passive sensors.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Dec 2016, 17:41

ArmChairCivvy wrote:What else is there in place, to do that?

Tumbleweed wrote:Outside of the LEAPP sensors what AD radars do land have now

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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby Tumbleweed » 18 Dec 2016, 17:59

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
ArmChairCivvy wrote:What else is there in place, to do that?

Tumbleweed wrote:Outside of the LEAPP sensors what AD radars do land have now


Still not sure where you're going with this?

There is a new in service networked Air Surveillance system to provide an air picture to a land HQ with a medium range radar, and including I think Link 16 and 11. Additional sensors have been bought and will be used with the new GBAD system replacing Rapier. Even if Rapier was available to the Bdes its search radar is not networked and has an extremely limited range.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ground Based Air Defence

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Dec 2016, 18:17

Tumbleweed wrote:new in service networked Air Surveillance system to provide an air picture to a land HQ with a medium range radar

plus
Tumbleweed wrote:Additional sensors have been bought and will be used with the new GBAD system replacing Rapier


You keep repeating back [paraphrasing] what I have already said; further

Tumbleweed wrote:Rapier was available to the Bdes its search radar is not networked and has an extremely limited range

-from the detail part you just omitted the anti-mortar/ counter-btry radars (touched on earlier; you seemed convinced that they had much life left in them, but in the same sentence asked for the OSD dates)


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