UK Defence Forum

Ron5 wrote:Good to see an APS. Is it Trophy?

Iron Fist, but its an optional extra + £££

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote:The Black Knight certainly looks err...busy on top, doesn't it?

Most tanks with modern systems are, really.

What a surprise:

Nicholas Drummond
‏ @nicholadrummond

Rheinmetall proposal for Challenger 2 LEP upgrade has Leopard Evolution turret

Great, so we keep the weakest elements of CR2 and combine the turret of the least armoured western tank all for the sake of a new gun. Ironically the tank crews dont seem to have the same panty twisting as seen here. You would be better going for the 120mm smoothbore unmanned turret.

jimthelad wrote:combine the turret of the least armoured western tank all for the sake of a new gun. Ironically the tank crews dont seem to have the same panty twisting as seen here.

I don't think the deficiencies that have become plain for all to see (Turkey's forays into the neighbouring country) extend to the turret? When the previous upgrade prgrm hit the rocks, the observers did not think it was the end of the matter:
" U.K. Ministry of Defence expects the initial
Smoothbore Option Technical Demonstrator Program
(SOTDP) to be complete by mid-2006.
Although the SOTDP failed to secure further develop-
ment and production funding in the 2005 MoD budget,
we expect the MoD will somehow find the funds to
continue the Rh 120/55 ordnance integration, to support
the stated intention of extending the Challenger 2
service life to 2035 "
- how's the armour penetration, btw, as the rest of the world has not stood still?

More photos here:





Credit to Defence Photograghy

Definitely retaining the barbette location for the gunner’s thermals. Odd.

mr.fred wrote:efinitely retaining the barbette location for the gunner’s thermals. Odd.

Looks like it. But there is also a fixed sight underneath the Commanders Hunter Killer optic.

Timmymagic wrote:Looks like it. But there is also a fixed sight underneath the Commanders Hunter Killer optic.

That's the Gunner's Primary Sight. Visible light only (day for certain, possibly II as well) since you can see the objective of the sensor through the sight. It's gyrostabilised.

Timmymagic wrote:

mr.fred wrote:efinitely retaining the barbette location for the gunner’s thermals. Odd.

Looks like it. But there is also a fixed sight underneath the Commanders Hunter Killer optic.

Looking at it, despite the angle fixed to the gun, it seemed like a good design. Enough of armour as with the modern tanks, done up like Xmas trees, it seems that you can pretty much blind them with a round of shrapnel (AHEAD in modern terms).

Look at the rear of the turret, more sensors (radar or laser?) with additional smoke dischargers..

And another image of the rear with sensors and additional dischargers/

jimthelad wrote:Great, so we keep the weakest elements of CR2 and combine the turret of the least armoured western tank all for the sake of a new gun.

The weakest armoured turret in the west would be the Ariete, then the Leclerc, before you get to the Leopard.

Note that I am not inherently disagreeing with you that this is a questionable choice to say the least.

You would be better going for the 120mm smoothbore unmanned turret.

What unmanned turret? The only one even vaguely applicable to the Challenger was the Jordanian one, which was never completed to any operational extent and was hideously awful to the point even Jordan didn't want it.

RetroSicotte wrote:not inherently disagreeing with you that this is a questionable choice to say the least.

Left [a bit] in the dark by these comments... though "the least protected" was put onto a scale, yes.

I wasnt really including the former 2!!! Besides the standard Leo 2 is very weak in the side and bustle areas. That is why they had to use the applique panels made by KW.

Timmymagic wrote:And another image of the rear with sensors and additional dischargers/

The reason they can't call it 'Black Knght' http://www.military-today.com/apc/black_knight.htm

Challenger 2 "Black Edition"

Chieftain Blue
Ch1 Silver
Ch2 Platinum, and

Little J wrote:Challenger 2 "Black Edition"

I was thinking more along the lines of Mercedes AMG, with Clarkson doing a test drive screaming "Power"!!!!

What'll be interesting is with increased Russian aggression is whether the Modernizing Defense Program puts increased emphasis on not just the quality but also the quantity of heavy armor. If the latter where would the manpower come from, the light cavalry units?

https://www.forces.net/news/challenger- ... rm-warfare

Another report on Chally 2 and an interview with the “Campaign Leader for Challenger 2” from BAE..

It's Black Night.

Night.

N.

(Forces TV) 25th September 2018

Britain's manpower has been showcased at the Defence Vehicles Dynamics event in Millbrook - amongst them was the British Army's main battle tank. The Challenger 2 entered service in 1998 and its life is being extended to 2035. The prototype Challenger 2, Mark 2 Demonstrator, nicknamed the 'Black Knight', has been developed within the last year, with the focus on enhancing its sensor systems.

If the CR2s are updated to something like the "Black Knight", they will remain an effective platform until their OSD, but it remains to be seen whether the programme is sufficiently funded to achieve this.

An effective platform for COIN and bullying the T-72s of second and third world nations, yes, and at least not being blind any more since 24 hour HK became standard years ago; but there are still massive problems needing solved. Chief among them the gun, and further purchases of modular armour, or even armour upgrades.

Information has started to drop on the composition and intended shell resistances of the vehicle, based on documents uncovered pertaining to the tank's intended specification in the mid-90's. The baseline armour hasn't been upgraded in 20 years (an eternity in tank design, and likely won't have been for 30+ since entry), so it's a worrying set of numbers for a peer-to-peer consideration.

The Challenger's upgrades are aimed predominantly at repeating an Iraq. To operate against someone overmatched against it, really. They're clearly not angling this at rivaling other modern tanks.