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FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
mr.fred
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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby mr.fred » 17 Sep 2018, 19:57

Looks like the new Leonardo sensor is going in to replace the TICM2 modules in the TOGS, unless they are modifying the PASEO. While off the shelf provides cost benefits, the resolution of the Leonardo imager is much greater than the published Sagem line up.

Looks like it’s got the laser warning system (Elbit E-LAWS) that has been shown on Ajax, alongside what I assume are radars for the HK-DAS.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 17 Sep 2018, 21:02

Wonder if Rheinmetall's offering will break cover soon then? The Black Knight certainly looks err...busy on top, doesn't it?

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby Jake1992 » 18 Sep 2018, 09:10

I thought that part of the upgrade plans were to replace the barel with a smooth bore is this still going ahead ?

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Sep 2018, 10:00

Jake1992 wrote:that part of the upgrade plans


Don't think it was part of the request that the two that were down-selected responded to, BUT:
- Rheinmetall interestingly added that they thought it was possible

Which made me think that they were thinking of proposing a whole new turret (?)
- I seem to remember the round during which the smoothbore was trialed concluded that one-piece rounds would require a new turret
- and just to come to that conclusion (trying it out within the existing turret) cost an arm and a leg

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby RunningStrong » 18 Sep 2018, 12:08

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote:Wonder if Rheinmetall's offering will break cover soon then? The Black Knight certainly looks err...busy on top, doesn't it?

I'd be surprised if it's not at DVD this week.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby shark bait » 18 Sep 2018, 12:11

Ron5 wrote:Good to see an APS. Is it Trophy?


Iron Fist, but its an optional extra + £££
@LandSharkUK

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby RetroSicotte » 18 Sep 2018, 12:57

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote:The Black Knight certainly looks err...busy on top, doesn't it?

Most tanks with modern systems are, really.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Sep 2018, 17:42

What a surprise:

Nicholas Drummond
‏ @nicholadrummond

Rheinmetall proposal for Challenger 2 LEP upgrade has Leopard Evolution turret

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby jimthelad » 18 Sep 2018, 18:03

Great, so we keep the weakest elements of CR2 and combine the turret of the least armoured western tank all for the sake of a new gun. Ironically the tank crews dont seem to have the same panty twisting as seen here. You would be better going for the 120mm smoothbore unmanned turret.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 19 Sep 2018, 07:23

jimthelad wrote:combine the turret of the least armoured western tank all for the sake of a new gun. Ironically the tank crews dont seem to have the same panty twisting as seen here.


I don't think the deficiencies that have become plain for all to see (Turkey's forays into the neighbouring country) extend to the turret? When the previous upgrade prgrm hit the rocks, the observers did not think it was the end of the matter:
" U.K. Ministry of Defence expects the initial
Smoothbore Option Technical Demonstrator Program
(SOTDP) to be complete by mid-2006.
Although the SOTDP failed to secure further develop-
ment and production funding in the 2005 MoD budget,
we expect the MoD will somehow find the funds to
continue the Rh 120/55 ordnance integration, to support
the stated intention of extending the Challenger 2
service life to 2035 "
- how's the armour penetration, btw, as the rest of the world has not stood still?

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 19 Sep 2018, 11:54

More photos here:

Image
Image
Image

Credit to Defence Photograghy

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby mr.fred » 19 Sep 2018, 19:16

Definitely retaining the barbette location for the gunner’s thermals. Odd.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby Timmymagic » 19 Sep 2018, 21:19

mr.fred wrote:efinitely retaining the barbette location for the gunner’s thermals. Odd.


Looks like it. But there is also a fixed sight underneath the Commanders Hunter Killer optic.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby mr.fred » 19 Sep 2018, 22:07

Timmymagic wrote:Looks like it. But there is also a fixed sight underneath the Commanders Hunter Killer optic.

That's the Gunner's Primary Sight. Visible light only (day for certain, possibly II as well) since you can see the objective of the sensor through the sight. It's gyrostabilised.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 19 Sep 2018, 22:10

Timmymagic wrote:
mr.fred wrote:efinitely retaining the barbette location for the gunner’s thermals. Odd.


Looks like it. But there is also a fixed sight underneath the Commanders Hunter Killer optic.


Looking at it, despite the angle fixed to the gun, it seemed like a good design. Enough of armour as with the modern tanks, done up like Xmas trees, it seems that you can pretty much blind them with a round of shrapnel (AHEAD in modern terms).

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby Timmymagic » 19 Sep 2018, 22:14

Look at the rear of the turret, more sensors (radar or laser?) with additional smoke dischargers..


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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby Timmymagic » 19 Sep 2018, 22:17

And another image of the rear with sensors and additional dischargers/


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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby RetroSicotte » 20 Sep 2018, 12:58

jimthelad wrote:Great, so we keep the weakest elements of CR2 and combine the turret of the least armoured western tank all for the sake of a new gun.

The weakest armoured turret in the west would be the Ariete, then the Leclerc, before you get to the Leopard.

Note that I am not inherently disagreeing with you that this is a questionable choice to say the least.

You would be better going for the 120mm smoothbore unmanned turret.

What unmanned turret? The only one even vaguely applicable to the Challenger was the Jordanian one, which was never completed to any operational extent and was hideously awful to the point even Jordan didn't want it.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 20 Sep 2018, 17:22

RetroSicotte wrote:not inherently disagreeing with you that this is a questionable choice to say the least.


Left [a bit] in the dark by these comments... though "the least protected" was put onto a scale, yes.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby jimthelad » 20 Sep 2018, 22:44

I wasnt really including the former 2!!! Besides the standard Leo 2 is very weak in the side and bustle areas. That is why they had to use the applique panels made by KW.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Sep 2018, 07:04

Timmymagic wrote:And another image of the rear with sensors and additional dischargers/



The reason they can't call it 'Black Knght' http://www.military-today.com/apc/black_knight.htm

Little J
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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby Little J » 21 Sep 2018, 22:54

Challenger 2 "Black Edition" :D


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 22 Sep 2018, 02:04

Chieftain Blue
Ch1 Silver
Ch2 Platinum, and
Little J wrote:Challenger 2 "Black Edition" :D

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby Little J » 22 Sep 2018, 07:10

I was thinking more along the lines of Mercedes AMG, with Clarkson doing a test drive screaming "Power"!!!! :D

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Postby J. Tattersall » 23 Sep 2018, 14:33

What'll be interesting is with increased Russian aggression is whether the Modernizing Defense Program puts increased emphasis on not just the quality but also the quantity of heavy armor. If the latter where would the manpower come from, the light cavalry units?


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