FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

[shark bait]

euro tank does seem a reasonable way foward.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

euro tank does seem a reasonable way foward.

Or a complete and utter nightmare of untold proportions, going by past precedent...

[shark bait]

Meh, that is only what the challenger is now

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Meh, that is only what the challenger is now

I beg to differ. The more nations that jump on the Eurotank bandwagon, the more of a horror show it will become. Hell, between the UK, France and Germany alone i doubt we could come up with a realistically achievable design that meets everyone's requirements. Now there is talk of Poland jumping in on the action and an open door policy to anyone else? I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

I reckon the Eurotank project is going to make the Eurofighter, NH90, A400 and Horizon projects look like cakewalks.

[shark bait]

There is no doubt joint problems have their difficulties, but a joint tank would be a hell of a lot more supportable through life than another small bespoke British option.

I would suggest tanks are more single use than the other projects, would this make such a project more deliverable?

[Gabriele]

Senior Responsible Owner appointment letter for "Armour - MBT 2025", the programme for the renewal of the MBT component, says:

- August 2016
Assessment Phase Contractor Downselect

- October 2016
Assessment Phase Contract Award

- August 2018
Soft Kill Defensive Aids System fielding decision

- Q2 2019
"set conditions" for Main Gate approval

[ArmChairCivvy]

- October 2016
Assessment Phase Contract Award

A done deal, that is... very good (for a change!)
- press release to follow, for Xmas

[bobp]

euro tank does seem a reasonable way foward.

Fully support your view, building say 250 British tanks would not be cost effective. However thinking of British jobs and possible exports then its a hard decision for someone to have to make. But if we make a decent chunk of a Euro Tank then that would also have benefits.
The German Tanks seem to be pretty decent.

[arfah]

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[mr.fred]

I like the idea of "See-through" tanks, but how good is the video quality? What is the effect of parallax at close distance? It's kind of the make-or-break of these systems.

[arfah]

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[shark bait]

Would normally require a lot of processing power to make it work in real time, however there are now specialist chips that work on stitching together 360 video making the process much more efficient.

From system like this we can expect a clear an coherent image, I imagine it's much like the 360 view F35 pilots can enjoy, I was very impressed when I saw the samples from that system.

[ArmChairCivvy]

specialist chips that work on stitching together 360 video

I did not read the article (either!) but the last I heard of this was the camera taking a video of the background, and then a a coating on the reverse side to project that piccie onto, for the AFV to "fit in"
- 360?

[shark bait]

No, this is a 360 view of the outside for the people in the inside of the tank. An attempt to increase visibility without reducing protection.

F35 pilots have the same system to let them see through the floor of their aircraft.

There is also another BAE invention that allows the skin on the AFV to blend in with the background within the infrared spectrum.

[ArmChairCivvy]

this is a 360 view of the outside for the people in the inside of the tank

- ahh... should have read the article

In the good old days one could practice anti-tank ambushes with inert munitions. These days the periscopes/mirrors/ cameras are so precious that any that sort of training is out of the question. So you have laser add-ons, laser sensors on the tanks and so on, when it could all be done with a variation of "paint balling"

[abc123]

Meh, that is only what the challenger is now

I beg to differ. The more nations that jump on the Eurotank bandwagon, the more of a horror show it will become. Hell, between the UK, France and Germany alone i doubt we could come up with a realistically achievable design that meets everyone's requirements. Now there is talk of Poland jumping in on the action and an open door policy to anyone else? I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

I reckon the Eurotank project is going to make the Eurofighter, NH90, A400 and Horizon projects look like cakewalks.

I agree. Or just buy Leopard 2 A7 from Germany and end with it.

But if you have to spend your money allready, better to spend it in UK than in Germany or France...

Eurotank is the worst possible solution IMHO.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Or just buy Leopard 2 A7

There are some trends noted in the "Israel" thread
... just bcz they actually have a track record of producing stuff that not only works, but is effective as well

[mr.fred]

I like the idea of "See-through" tanks, but how good is the video quality? What is the effect of parallax at close distance? It's kind of the make-or-break of these systems.

You know, I have no idea?

I landed on this info without looking and thought it was worth disseminating.

I was hoping someone might provide the length and breadth of detail

Consider the question, perhaps, rhetorical? I know that one of the Scandinavian countries (Norway, I think) trialled the Oculus Rift for the driver and found that the resolution wasn't sufficient for it to be effective.

It's an easier solution for a jet fighter like the F35 because everything you are looking at is much, much further away relative to the baseline of the cameras. The cameras can be bigger and more expensive because the aircraft itself is already much more expensive. The movement of the surroundings relative to the aircraft is slow (in angular velocity terms) so latency is less of a problem.

[arfah]

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[arfah]

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[ArmChairCivvy]

So, it looks like there is a forerunner (if there is going to be any APS, that is):

"In early July, the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory placed a £7.6 million deal with Qinetiq to evaluate active-protection equipment for armored vehicles, including integrating an Airbus Defence system known as MUSS on the Challenger 2."

[arfah]

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[The Armchair Soldier]

Lockheed-Elbit Team Joins British Tank-Upgrade Competition

London — Lockheed Martin UK is to team with Israel’s Elbit Systems in its bid to secure a deal to update the British Army’s aging fleet of Challenger main battle tanks.

The two companies revealed their collaboration pact just 24 hours ahead of the closing date for the submission of industry proposals to undertake the assessment phase on a program which could see up to 227 tanks updated at a cost of £624 million ($816 million).

[...]

The British Army is primarily looking to address turret-obsolescence issues in a tank which entered service in 1998 and recently had its out-of-service date extended 10 years, to 2035, as a result of the 2015 strategic defence and security review deliberations.

Some actual updates also are being considered, and the assessment-phase work will include looking at affordable upgrades that go beyond just keeping the tanks battle-worthy. For example, one of the studies will cover lethality. Lockheed Martin executives said the area could extend beyond traditional weaponry, potentially also covering radio-frequency jamming pods and target-designation equipment to enable joint fires.

One upgrade could be the provision of a defensive-aids system, or active-protection system, for the BAE-built Challenger 2.

Read More: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /88518756/

[ArmChairCivvy]

target-designation equipment to enable joint fires.

The number of GMLRS rockets that the US is storing (and even after AW becoming available, not knowing what to do with) could be used to turn the Ch2s into forward spotters for precision fires (or splatting a concentration of other than MBTs with a good number of AWs, for that matter).

Cheap - and instant - as we have more launch units than are being used?

And who wants Excalibur for the tiny number of guns we have left in the artillery? It has got to be the Diehl munition where the 155 delivers 2 intelligent anti-armour rounds in one go.
- goes into the rockets, too, but how often do you get to target armour beyond artillery range?

[Gabriele]

Rheinmetall's offer for Challenger 2 LEP seems to still include switching to smoothbore gun. How do they solve the ammunition problem, and for how much money, is a big and fascinating question. http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/r ... _10880.php

Ben Hudson, Head of Rheinmetall’s Vehicle Systems Division, said "Our team has put together an innovative proposal to solve not only the obsolescence issues of the Challenger 2 but to also cost effectively enhance the capabilities of the MBT. One example of this is that our solution can integrate either the existing 120mm L30 rifled gun or our proven 120mm L55 smooth bore system that is in service with the German Army and can fire the latest generation kinetic energy rounds and our unique 120mm air-burst ammunition. When combined with the new optronics, situational awareness and fire control systems our solution will allow the Challenger 2 to fight, survive and win on the battlefields of today and tomorrow."

If they have come up with a reasonably priced solution to the problem, that makes them insta-winners in my book.