FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

[Tinman]

Can we have less e-peen and more constructive discussion please? TIA

Whats your suggestion.

[Tiny Toy]

Whats your suggestion.

Just stick to the facts as you see them and make your case on that basis rather than resorting to ad hominems.

[mr.fred]

For the sake of clarity, the answer to my question was irony.

[Cooper]

I'd like it better if it didn't cut between scenes so much.
It's always instructive to see how the Challengers are left wallowing in the wake of the Leopards which are going so much faster.

..or maybe the German tank crew were just pressing down harder on the accelerator pedal in those particular shots.

[Tinman]

Whats your suggestion.

Just stick to the facts as you see them and make your case on that basis rather than resorting to ad hominems.

Ad hominems really, why asking about various modern tank v tank engagements? I suggest you stop acting like a precious princess!


Thats an Ad Hominems.

[RetroSicotte]

Chill it, lads.

[Tinman]

Chill it, lads.

Really?

You havent just had a internet warrior moment?

I mainly use this forum for the RAF part, add my opinion and experience, yet find it full of fan boys and PTT opinions. Lots of ideas but no real back up of how capabilities could be restored.

Particularly regarding the MBT, the neglect by the army, then saying we need it is hysterical. As is those suggesting NON combat proven MBT should be chosen as a replacement.

[RetroSicotte]

It's nothing more advanced than a reminder to keep the tone civil on this forum. People come here to discuss, and occasionally might need a nudge to not let passionate views take hold too much.

That goes for all people. In either direction. I generally elect to take a soft approach in thread most of the time, as I'm sure most will agree works best to keep everything informal. It is always worth remembering that this forum is as much for the enthusiast as it is the experienced. Respect for all involved it a core tennant of anyone's presence here and the way in which they enjoy discussion.

So all I ask is that the above little back forth chills out. We don't need accusation or slights from any party.

[downsizer]

Russian tanks is best.

[90inFIRST]

I'd like it better if it didn't cut between scenes so much.
It's always instructive to see how the Challengers are left wallowing in the wake of the Leopards which are going so much faster.

..or maybe the German tank crew were just pressing down harder on the accelerator pedal in those particular shots.

Not German but Polish, one might say the British crews might be using the "fools rush in" approach where in my experience the Polish way is pedal to the metal all the way....................

[Tinman]

Russian tanks is best.

Russia STRONG!!

[mr.fred]

Not German but Polish, one might say the British crews might be using the "fools rush in" approach where in my experience the Polish way is pedal to the metal all the way....................

Or that all the tanks were in fact going more-or-less the same speed...

[90inFIRST]

TBH yes they seemed that way to me

[seaspear]

There was a video of the new Russian tank happily wallowing through some of the thick mud, is that something Challenger is capable of ?usually seen on desert or solid footing .

[90inFIRST]

Even our american cousins like it

[Dahedd]

I wasn't sure whether to ask this here or in the Ajax thread but if the Challenger is so out dated & joining a Euro replacement program is temperamental why not develop the mobile gun variant of the Ascod?

http://www.army-technology.com/projects ... scod3.html

Yes it's substantially lighter than a full blown MBT but it would be more mobile & have full commonality with the Ajax fleet. Note I'd rather have a full blown not but if that's not possible would this work? Especially if paired with an updated missile carrier like the old Striker.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I'd rather go for CR3, in this vein, and in conjunction with Krauss Maffei, now merged with Nexter:
" a modified Challenger hull, but only 5% of the components of the new design were compatible with the Challenger, as the new design had over 150 modifications including a brand new turret.

The [VDS] new design was chosen as the British Armies new Main Battle Tank and replacement for their Chieftain fleet, designated the Challenger 2 FV4034. Aka “CR2” it entered service in 1998 with the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards in Germany."
- a German gun
- an Italian engine
- but a British (new) tank overall
... just that we don't have anyone to make it any more; only Integrators of Integrators firms (output, predictably, will be slide ware - scary!"

[Ron5]

I wasn't sure whether to ask this here or in the Ajax thread but if the Challenger is so out dated & joining a Euro replacement program is temperamental why not develop the mobile gun variant of the Ascod?

http://www.army-technology.com/projects ... scod3.html

Yes it's substantially lighter than a full blown MBT but it would be more mobile & have full commonality with the Ajax fleet. Note I'd rather have a full blown not but if that's not possible would this work? Especially if paired with an updated missile carrier like the old Striker.

The original Scout SV, now Ajax, plan included a fire support variant on a bigger chassis with either a 120 or 105 gun. Didn't make the final cut unfortunately. Would have been quite something.

[riksavage]

UK should stick SPIKE LR on an AJAX chassis to compliment CR2/AJAX 40MM until a CR2 replacement is identified. At least then the UK will have some stand-off capability in the event we see another conflict where heavy armour is not required (A-Stan for example). Isn't SPIKE LR already used by the UK in the form of a wheeled trailer?

[mr.fred]

I wasn't sure whether to ask this here or in the Ajax thread but if the Challenger is so out dated & joining a Euro replacement program is temperamental why not develop the mobile gun variant of the Ascod?

http://www.army-technology.com/projects ... scod3.html

Yes it's substantially lighter than a full blown MBT but it would be more mobile & have full commonality with the Ajax fleet. Note I'd rather have a full blown not but if that's not possible would this work? Especially if paired with an updated missile carrier like the old Striker.

In the first instance, going for a self-propelled gun on the Ajax would almost guarantee that there would be no future MBT.
It would be substantially lighter than an MBT but with disproportionately lighter protection due to its relatively larger size.
It would be no more mobile, either on its own or with regards to the logistics required to move it.
It would have common components with the rest of the fleet

[ArmChairCivvy]

Would look a bit like what is on page 6 here
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/CV90_12%20page.pdf
except that you can't see it as it takes a picture of what is behind it and projects the image onto the armour on the opposite side

[Ron5]

In the first instance, going for a self-propelled gun on the Ajax would almost guarantee that there would be no future MBT.

Mr Fred, why is that?

[mr.fred]

Would look a bit like what is on page 6 here
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/CV90_12%20page.pdf
except that you can't see it as it takes a picture of what is behind it and projects the image onto the armour on the opposite side

We can't see your C: drive.

In the first instance, going for a self-propelled gun on the Ajax would almost guarantee that there would be no future MBT.

Mr Fred, why is that?

Well, our new transformational medium weight technology will use network enabled technology and an agile methodology will enable our effects based concept to open up a different paradigm and be a real game changer.
That and all the money sunk into it will make it harder to secure funding for anything else.
On top of that you would have to convince the politicians holding the purse strings that you really do need another tracked, 120mm armed, turreted AFV. The difference between SPG and MBT is lost on most.

[ArmChairCivvy]

tracked, 120mm armed, turreted AFV

That's what I meant to link to, the CV90 version. Sorry about the mix up, Windows 10 displays documents and their names just the same way as web pages, and got me fooled

[Tony Williams]

Well, our new transformational medium weight technology will use network enabled technology and an agile methodology will enable our effects based concept to open up a different paradigm and be a real game changer.