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CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
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CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Postby SKB » 03 Jun 2015, 18:08

Overall Introduction
The Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) —or CVR(T)—is a family of armoured fighting vehicles (AFV)s in service with the British Army and others throughout the world. They are small, highly mobile, air-transportable armoured vehicles designed to replace the Alvis Saladin armoured car.

First designed by Alvis in the 1960s, the CVR(T) family includes Scorpion and Scimitar light reconnaissance tanks, Spartan armoured personnel carriers (APC)s, Sultan command and control vehicle, Samaritan armoured ambulance, Striker anti–tank guided missile vehicle and Samson armoured recovery vehicle. All members of the CVR(T) family were designed to share common automotive components and suspension; aluminium armour was selected to keep the weight down. By 1996 more than 3,500 had been built for British Army use and export.

Scorpion and Striker have now been withdrawn from British Army service. Scimitar and Spartan are expected to be replaced by newer vehicles from the Future Rapid Effect System programme and the Panther Command and Liaison Vehicle. Army 2020 armoured cavalry units however are stated to be equipped with Scimitars.


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FV101 Scorpion (Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle)
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Introduction
The FV101 Scorpion is a British armoured reconnaissance vehicle. It was the lead vehicle and the fire support type in the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked), CVR(T), family of seven armoured vehicles. Manufactured by Alvis, it was introduced into service with the British Army in 1973 and served until 1994. More than 3,000 were produced and used as a reconnaissance vehicle or a light tank. It holds the Guinness world record for the fastest production tank; recorded doing 82.23 kph (51 mph) at the QinetiQ vehicle test track, Chertsey, Surrey, on 26 March 2002

History
The Alvis Scorpion was originally developed to meet a British Army requirement for the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) or CVR(T). In 1967, Alvis was awarded the contract to produce 30 CVR(T) prototypes. Vehicles P1–P17 being the Scorpion prototypes were delivered on time and within the budget. After extensive hot and cold weather trials in Norway, Australia, Abu Dhabi and Canada, the Scorpion was accepted by the British Army in May 1970, with a contract for 275, which later rose to 313 vehicles. The first production vehicles were completed in 1972 and the first British regiment to be equipped with the Scorpion was the Blues and Royals of the Household Cavalry in 1973. In November 1981, the RAF Regiment took delivery of its first Scorpions.

Alvis built more than 3,000 Scorpion vehicles for the British Army, Royal Air Force Regiment and the export market.

All the CVR(T) vehicles were to be air-portable; and two Scorpions could be carried in a C130 Hercules. Another requirement of the CVR(T) project was the low ground pressure - similar to that of a soldier on foot - this would serve it well in the boggy conditions of the Falklands War.

The Scorpion was retired from active use in 1994 by the UK.


Manufacturer: Alvis Vehicles Ltd, Coventry, England
Weight: 17,800 lb (8.074 tonnes)
Length: 5.288 m (17 ft 4.2 in)
Width: 2.134 m (7 ft 0 in)
Height: 2.102 m (6 ft 10.8 in)
Crew: 3
Armour: 12.7 mm welded aluminium
Main armament: ROF 76mm L23A1 gun (90 mm in Scorpion 90)
Secondary armament: Coaxial 7.62 mm L43A1 machine gun
Engine: Cummins BTA 5.9-litre (diesel) 190 hp (140 kW)
Power/weight: 22.92 hp/tonne
Transmission: David Brown TN15
Suspension: Torsion-bar
Operational range: 756 km (470 mi)
Speed: 72.5 km/h (45.0 mph)




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FV102 Striker (Anti-Tank Guided Missile Carrier)
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Introduction
The FV102 Striker was the anti-tank guided missile carrier in the CVR(T) family and served in the British Army.

Overview
FV102 Striker was the Swingfire wire guided anti-tank missile carrying member of the CVR(T) family. The FV102 Striker was externally very similar to the FV103 Spartan but carried five missiles in a ready-to-fire bin at the back of the vehicle. Five reload missiles were carried in the vehicle. The bin was elevated to 35º (622mils) for firing. The targeting sight could be demounted and operated at a distance from the vehicle which could remain in cover, even completely screened as the missile can turn up to 90 degrees after launch to come onto the target heading. The missiles were originally steered by joystick control using manual command to line of sight (MCLOS). This was later updated to the semi-automatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) system where the controller merely sights the target. Secondary armament was a general purpose machine gun.

Development
The Striker was developed for the British Army to fire the Swingfire missile. The first production vehicles were delivered in 1975 and used in British Army service by the Royal Artillery anti-tank guided missile batteries. The vehicle initially was powered by the Jaguar J60 4.2-litre 6-cylinder petrol engine - the same as used by several Jaguar cars. This was then replaced by a Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel engine as used in British Army Scimitars, under the CVR(T) life extension programme.

Service History
Striker entered service in 1976 with the Royal Artillery of the BAOR, but since then have been transferred to the Royal Armoured Corps where they served in formation reconnaissance regiments. The FV102 Striker was withdrawn from British Army service as the Swingfire missile was replaced by the Javelin missile in mid-2005.

Manufacturer: Alvis
Weight: 8.1 tonnes
Length: 4.8 m
Width: 2.4 m
Height: 2.2 m
Crew: 3
Main armament: Swingfire in five bins with 5 reloads
Secondary armament: 1 x 7.62 mm L7 GPMG
Engine: Cummins BTA 5.9-litre diesel. 190 hp (142 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Speed: 80 km/h (49.7 mph)
Ground clearance: 0.35 m




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Alvis FV103 Spartan (Armoured Personnel Carrier)
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Introduction
The Alvis FV103 Spartan is a tracked armoured personnel carrier of the British Army. It was developed as the APC variant of the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) family. The vehicle can carry up to 7 personnel, including 3 crew members. Armed with a single machine gun, it is almost indistinguishable from the FV102 Striker in external appearance. Rather than a general personnel carrier for infantry, the Spartan has been used for moving specialist teams, such as anti-aircraft missile teams. An anti-tank variant of the Spartan has been produced, named FV120 Spartan MCT; this is armed with MILAN anti-tank missiles. Nearly 500 Spartans have served with the British armed forces since entering service in 1978; they are now being replaced by newer vehicles.

Design and features
The FV103 Spartan was developed during the 1970s as the Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) version of the British Army's Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) (CVR(T)) family of armoured fighting vehicles, designed by Alvis plc. The vehicle entered service with the British military in 1978. The Spartan is similar in appearance to the FV102 Striker, except for the missile launcher on the Striker.

The FV103 Spartan is powered by a Bedford 600 6-cylinder diesel engine, or a Cummins BT 5.1 engine. The vehicle is 5.16 metres (16.9 ft) in length and 2.48 metres (8 ft 2 in) in width. With a ground clearance of 0.33 metres (1 ft 1 in), it has a height of 2.63 metres (8 ft 8 in). As the APC variant of the CVR(T) family, the FV103 has been used by small specialized groups such as mortar fire controller teams, anti aircraft teams and also reconnaissance teams. The vehicle can carry 7 personnel, as a combination of 3 crew members and 4 passengers or 2 crew members and 5 passengers. It is armed with one 7.62 mm L37A1 machine gun, and can have four smoke dischargers on each side. In addition to the APC role, it has also been used as a resupply vehicle for the FV102 Striker, carrying extra Swingfire missiles. The FV103 has combat weight of 10,670 kilograms (23,520 lb). It can achieve a maximum speed of 96 kilometres per hour (60 mph) and has a range of 510 kilometres (320 mi). It is capable of negotiating up to 60% gradients.

Variants and service
An anti-tank variant of the FV103 was produced, named FV120 Spartan MCT (Spartan with MILAN Compact Turret). The FV120 has a two-man turret, and is equipped with two MILAN Anti-Tank Light Infantry Missiles in launch positions, while 11 more can be carried internally.

It was reported to the House of Commons in 2006 that 478 FV103 vehicles were in service with the armed forces of the United Kingdom in April of that year, with 452 of them in deployable state. By 2007, 495 FV103 Spartans were in the service of the United Kingdom. However, these were being replaced by mid-2009 with Panther Command and Liaison Vehicles.


Type: Armoured personnel carrier
Place of origin: United Kingdom
Weight: 10,670 kilograms (23,520 lb) 9 ton 55 lbs Battle weight
Length: 5.16 metres (16.9 ft)
Width: 2.48 metres (8 ft 2 in)
Height: 2.63 metres (8 ft 8 in)
Crew: 3, with 4 passengers
Main armament: 1 x 7.62 mm GPMG
Engine:
Jaguar J60 4.2 litre DOHC inline six petrol 252 lbs/ft @ 3000rpm
190 hp @ 4500rpm(142 kw)
Current vehicles are fitted with Cummins 6BT diesel
Power/weight: 17.9 hp/t
Suspension: Torsion bar
Operational range: 510 kilometres (320 mi)
Speed: 96 kilometres per hour (60 mph)


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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby SKB » 03 Jun 2015, 18:22

Alvis FV104 Samaritan (Armoured Ambulance)
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Introduction
The FV104 Samaritan is the British Army armoured ambulance variant of the CVR(T) family. It has a capacity for up to 6 casualties.

The Samaritan is one of the variants of the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) family of armoured fighting vehicles developed by Alvis plc for the British military.

Type: Armoured ambulance
Place of origin: United Kingdom
Manufacturer: Alvis plc
Weight: 8.7 tonnes
Length: 5.07 m
Width: 2.24 m
Height: 2.42 m
Crew: 2
Main armament: none
Secondary armament: none
Engine: Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel 190 hp (142 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Speed: 72.5 km/h

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Postby SKB » 03 Jun 2015, 18:26

Alvis FV105 Sultan (Armoured Command & Control Vehicle)
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Introduction
FV105 Sultan is a British Army command and control vehicle based on the CVR(T) platform. It has a higher roof than the APC variants, providing a more comfortable "office space" inside. This contains a large vertical map board and desk along one side, with a bench seat for three people facing it. Forward of this are positions for the radio operator with provision for four radios and vehicle commander, whose seat can be raised which also gave his access to the pintle mounted G.P.M.G. The driver sits forward of this in a small compartment beside the engine space, on a chair with a spring-loaded seat that allows him to recline inside the vehicle or sit upright with his head out of the hatch.

The back of the vehicle is designed to be extended by an attached tent to form a briefing area. The map board can be removed from the vehicle and hung from the tent poles, along with overhead lights connected to the Sultan's power supply. However, this option has been removed from many vehicles in service.

In common with the other CVR(T) vehicles, the Sultan was originally fitted with a canvas skirt for river crossing. Because of its high roof this was needed only at the front which slopes downwards. The swimming skirt has been permanently removed from all CVR(T) vehicles in the British Army.

The Sultan contains an NBC filter pack for protection against chemical gas, biological agents and radioactive particles.

Place of origin: United Kingdom
Weight: 8,346 kg
Length: 4.82m
Width: 2.28m
Height: ?
Crew: 6
Armour: ?
Main armament: FN MAG on pintle mount
Engine: Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel 190 hp (142 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Operational range: 450 km
Speed: 80 km/


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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby SKB » 03 Jun 2015, 18:28

Alvis FV106 Samson (Armoured Recovery Vehicle)
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Introduction
FV106 Samson is a British Army armoured recovery vehicle, one of the CVR(T) family. The main role of this vehicle is to recover the CVR(T) family of vehicles, but can recover other light tracked vehicles such as the FV430 series.

Design and features
The Samson was conceived in the early 1970s with the final design entering production in 1978. The hull is an all-welded aluminium construction. It usually carries a crew of three operating a 3.5T capstan winch that can also be utilised in a lifting configuration. It carries suitable equipment to enable a 4:1 mechanical advantage with 228m of winch rope. This winch is capable of recovering up to 12 Tonnes of vehicle. A manually operated earth anchor is situated at the rear to anchor the vehicle while operations are carried out.

The Samson can be fitted with a floatation screen so it can be operated amphibiously using its own tracks at 6.5 km/h or at 9.6 km/h if also fitted with a propeller kit. The Samson can also be fitted with a full NBC protection unit.

Type: Armoured recovery vehicle
Place of origin: United Kingdom
Weight: 8.7 tonnes
Length: 5 m (including Vice and bench)
Width: 2.4 m
Height: 2.8 m (Including A-frame)
Crew: Commander, driver and crew
Main armament: 1 x 7.62 mm L7 GPMG
Secondary armament: 8 Smoke dischargers
Engine: Jaguar 4.2 litre petrol
Operational range: 483 Km
Speed: 72 km/h


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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby SKB » 03 Jun 2015, 18:38

Alvis FV107 Scimitar (Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle)
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Introduction
FV107 Scimitar is an armoured reconnaissance vehicle (sometimes classed as a light tank) used by the British Army, manufactured by Alvis in Coventry. It is very similar to the FV101 Scorpion but mounts a high velocity 30 mm L21 RARDEN cannon instead of a 76 mm gun. It was issued to Royal Armoured Corps armoured regiments in the reconnaissance role. Each regiment had a close reconnaissance squadron of 5 troops, each containing 8 FV107 Scimitars.

Development
The FV107 Scimitar is one of the CVR(T) series of vehicles and entered service in 1971.

Initially the engine was the Jaguar J60 4.2-litre 6-cylinder petrol engine, the same as used by several Jaguar cars. This has now been replaced by a Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel engine in British Army Scimitars, under the CVR(T) Life Extension Program (LEP).

The Scimitar lifespan has once again (as of middle 2009) been extended to accommodate the shift in timeframe with the Future Rapid Effect System program which would have seen new armoured vehicles introduced to replace the ageing CVR(T) range of vehicles. With new modifications, air filtration units and gearbox upgrades (late 2009) as well as hull alterations (late 2009) and the creation of a CVR(T) Spartan & CVR(T) Scimitar hybrid the CVR(T) range (early 2010) is expected to continue well beyond 2017.

Type: Reconnaissance vehicle
Place of origin: United Kingdom
Service history: Falklands War, Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq War, Afghanistan
Manufacturer: Alvis
Weight: 7.8 tonnes
Length: 4.9 m
Width: 2.2 m
Height: 2.1 m
Crew: 3
Armour: aluminium armour
Main armament: 30 mm L21 RARDEN cannon, sabot, HE, and armor-piercing special effects (APSE) rounds
Secondary armament: Coaxial 7.62 mm L37A1 MG
Additional defence: 2 × 4-barrel smoke launchers
Engine: Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel 190 hp (142 kW)
Suspension: Torsion bar
Operational range: 450 km
Speed: 50 mph (80.5 km/h)
Ground clearance: 0.35 m



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Sabre
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Introduction
Sabre is a variation of the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked), featuring the turret from a Fox reconnaissance vehicle mounted on the hull of a Scorpion.

Design
This hybrid vehicle was introduced as a less expensive way of producing a similar vehicle to the FV107 Scimitar, but with a slightly lower profile turret. It was brought into service in 1995. During initial combat exercises, several flaws were identified. In particular, the vehicle lacked defensive capabilities. As such, modifications were made to the turret of the Sabre to include redesigned smoke grenade launchers and the L94A1 7.62 mm chain gun replacing the standard 7.62 mm general-purpose machine gun, for anti-personnel use. An ammunition hopper sits on the side of the machine gun allowing the weapon to be more quickly reloaded than a belt-fed machine gun.

The marriage of the Fox turret and Scorpion chassis was not successful and Sabre was withdrawn from British Army service in 2004.

Weight: 8.1 tonnes
Length: 4.8 m (15 ft 9 in)
Width: 2.2 m (7 ft 3 in)
Height: 2.2 m (7 ft 3 in)
Crew: 3
Main armament: 30 mm L21 RARDEN cannon
Secondary armament: Co-axial 7.62 mm chain gun
Engine: Cummins BTA 5.9 diesel 190 hp (142 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Speed: 80 km/h (50 mph)



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Stormer
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Introduction
Alvis Stormer is a modern military armoured vehicle manufactured by the British company, Alvis Vickers, now BAE Systems Global Combat Systems.

The Stormer is a development of the CVR(T) family of vehicles (Scorpion, Scimitar, Spartan etc.), essentially a larger, modernised version with an extra road-wheel on each side.

Variants
Like most modern AFVs, Stormer can be produced in several different configurations for different battlefield roles. It is marketed by BAE as being fitted with many combinations such as a two-person turret armed with a 25 mm cannon, Air defence (with guns or missiles); engineer vehicle; recovery vehicle; ambulance; mine layer; 81 mm or 120 mm mortar carrier; command and control vehicle; bridge layer; and a logistics vehicle. Optional equipment, includes a nuclear-biological-chemical protection system; an amphibious kit; passive night-vision equipment; and an air-conditioning system

Specific types are:

Stormer HVM
The British Army use Stormer equipped with the Starstreak HVM for short range air defence. Under Army 2020, Stormer HVM will equip three regular and two reserve artillery batteries.
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Stormer Flatbed
A transport version of the Stormer with a flat load bed. Lower photo shown carrying the Shielder minelaying system.
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Stormer 30
Stormer 30 is a development of the Stormer chassis to give a tracked reconnaissance vehicle. It is a turreted version of the Stormer. Armed with a 30 mm Bushmaster II automatic cannon, and with the option of a TOW missile launcher that can be fitted to either turret side. The cannon and turret can traverse through 360° and the elevation is from -45° to +60°. The rate of fire of the cannon is from single shot to a maximum of 200 rounds per minute. The cannon has a double selection ammunition feed system with 180 rounds of ammunition ready to fire.

The vehicle remains in the prototype stage and it is unclear when it will enter service. The vehicle will be fully air transportable by C-130 Hercules used by the RAF aircraft as well as large CH-53 currently in service with NATO allies and other nations across the world.
Image

Weight: 12.7 tonnes
Length: 5.27 m
Width: 2.76 m
Height: 2.49 m
Crew: 2 + 12
Engine: Perkins 6-litre, 6-cylinder diesel 250 hp (186 kW)
Power/weight: 21 hp/tonne
Transmission: David Brown TN15D
Suspension: Torsion bar
Operational range: 640 miles, 800 km
Speed: 50 mph, 80 km/h


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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby marktigger » 01 Jul 2015, 16:03

where are FV101 Scorpion and the Sabre's entries?

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby SKB » 01 Jul 2015, 17:23

marktigger wrote:where are FV101 Scorpion and the Sabre's entries?

I've added in FV101 Scorpion, FV102 Striker, Sabre and Stormer ;)

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby RetroSicotte » 11 May 2016, 18:01

CVRT Upgraded with Ukrainian turret for Jordon displayed at SOFEX 2016

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http://www.armyrecognition.com/sofex_20 ... 05165.html

The "KASTET" combat module was designed to offer a modern weapon systems which can be fitted on existing light and medium weight armoured vehicle. The "KASTET" turret has a total weight of 1,500 kg.

The combat module "KASTET" is fitted with a new fire control system using multi-channel optical and TV sighting complex.
The "KASTET" turret is armed with ZTM-1 30mm automatic cannon which can fire a full range of ammunition as APT and APIT at a maximum range of 2,000 m. Second armament includes one 30 automatic grenade launcher KBA 117 and one KT 7.62mm machine gun.

On the right side of the turret, there is two launchers for "Barrier" ATGM (Anti-Tank Guided Missile). The missile is able to destroy armored targets at distances from 100 to 5,000 meters.


So an 8-ton vehicle can throw a couple ATGMs on, but somehow we couldn't find them for a 42 ton Ajax or 30 ton Warrior...hmmm...

Really shows the potential of the CVRT still. Gotta wonder if a CT40 could fit on there and what that might find in the big market out there, given CVRTs are still in use. Allegedly the ones to Latvia will also have ATGMs added beside the 30mm RARDEN.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby shark bait » 11 May 2016, 18:42

It is a clear deficiency, hopefully it will be fixed through ABSV.

As the balance of our armoured vehicles is moving more to the medium side, they need to mount ATGM to stay credible, especially as the luxury of clear skies can't always be guaranteed.
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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 11 May 2016, 21:46

Stormer based bridge-layers were sold to both indonesia and Malaysia
... the bigger chassis designs not being able to negotiate their way through the extensive plantations on both sides of the Straits

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 May 2016, 07:04

The rumour that 36-38 of those same bridges would have appeared on converted Warriors never came true. (Never say never: isn't what ABSV will deliver still quite ill defined?)

End result: the nxt-gen CVR(T) ie. Ajax has fantastic mobility until they come up against the smallest river crossing/ ditch/ mined bridge
... I guess we have plenty of the heavy bridge layers (to tag along)

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 May 2016, 07:07

RetroSicotte wrote: with Ukrainian turret for Jordon


Is it for Jordan , or an export venture? They bought hundreds of chasses off the Belgians (who had stored them).
- a fantastic combo of mobility and punch

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby RunningStrong » 12 May 2016, 22:12

RetroSicotte wrote:So an 8-ton vehicle can throw a couple ATGMs on, but somehow we couldn't find them for a 42 ton Ajax or 30 ton Warrior...hmmm...
.

Does the UK have a tracked-vehicle qualified ATGM to integrate?

Perhaps when that decision is made then the platform integration can start.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby RetroSicotte » 13 May 2016, 00:20

RunningStrong wrote:Does the UK have a tracked-vehicle qualified ATGM to integrate?

Perhaps when that decision is made then the platform integration can start.


Technically yes, Spike-NLOS is mounted on a tracked vehicle. (Mid transition to trailers, though)

As such, the ubiquitous Spike-LR would be a perfect and proven choice. Alternatively, Protector RWS upgraded with the twin extended range Javelin.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby RunningStrong » 13 May 2016, 08:37

From what little information I can find on Exactor i would presume it entered as a UOR, meaning that Spike isn't likely qualified to UK tracked vehicle standards.

Similarly for Javelin, not tracked vehicle qualified. You're correct that it's already been fitted on a Protector RWS though.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby shark bait » 13 May 2016, 13:13

RunningStrong wrote:From what little information I can find on Exactor i would presume it entered as a UOR, meaning that Spike isn't likely qualified to UK tracked vehicle standards.


Exactor was purchased as a UOR and mounted on, presumably borrowed, American M113's. 20 Exactor sets are now being brought into the core as a trailer mounted system, which is a great idea IMO.
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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 13 May 2016, 19:17

Nothing much to do with anti-armour , though, which would be the ER (and down from there).

NLOS is a capable indirect precision fires system.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby shark bait » 13 May 2016, 22:21

NLOS is still an anti armour weapon.
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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 May 2016, 11:21

The M-113 were bought with Exactor, from Israeli reserve stocks. Apparently they were in a poor state and maintenance was a nightmare (partly due to the expected unfamiliarity with M-113, parts supply and their general condition). They weren't fit to move very far if at all. In that situation the change to a stationary trailer mounted system deployed at the FOBS made sense. Not sure how it fits going forward.

I personally think we missed an opportunity with integrating with a UK vehicle. CVR(T) was probably too small (can't imagine many reloads could be carried) but mounting it on the back of a Supacat, MAN chassis or even on some of the soon to be retired Warthogs would have given a very useful capabilty particularly to the light formations. It could provide an answer to the overwatch of the new Ajax as well.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 May 2016, 16:44

Warthogs (or the moth balled flat bed Stormers) sound about right.

We can also choose to make the Army Wildcats into flying artillery (25 km range with NLOS installed, as in the picture for S. Korea):

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 May 2016, 17:36

Now stop that....

Someone may get the bright idea of cancelling the Apache upgrade. Just because LMM and Spike NLOS are integrated onto Wildcat is no reason for the Army to actually fit them...you'll be suggesting integrating Brimstone on Wildcat next...then it'll be Spear 3 or a CRV7 with APKWS.

Makes far too much sense. But saying that if it cost the Apache fleet I'm not in favour.

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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 May 2016, 17:56

I know what you are saying (and agree), but there is a conceptual flaw in the make up of the army fleet of helos below the medium and heavy lift sizes:

In the "good old days" you needed nimble scouting helicopters to direct the heavier AH into right areas ( a corollary: the US Kiowa, used in large numbers, but now extinct).

Out of tradition (and the necessity to get a long enough production run) Wildcat was slotted into that role (even though it does not exist anymore!). The Apaches are loaded with sensors of all possible kinds... they should be the scouting and targeting layer (with ample firepower to bring to bear, immediately).
- the less protected Wildcats with the 25km ranged NLOS installed could fire from distance at heavily protected targets that the Apaches have spotted (but decided not to approach a la the charge of the Light Cavalry).

There's a place for both, especially with the Apache numbers going down to 50 (even though the rotation through remanufacture would dictate that kind of shrinkage in the operational fleet for many years to come, in any case).

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 May 2016, 17:57

At least I have a "cover" story, talking about the scouting function, when bringing helicopters onto the CVR(T) thread!

Timmymagic
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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 May 2016, 19:25

Its all recon!!

RPAS could be the scouts for NLOS Wildcat....

marktigger
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Re: CRV(T) Armoured Vehicle Variants (Army)

Postby marktigger » 16 May 2016, 16:05

its a shame the lessons of CVRT were forgoten scout vehicles need to have a small foot print. could we see Ajax functioning in the falklands or in Belize?


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