Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

[The Armchair Soldier]

An announcement on AJAX in a recent speech by the Defence Secretary:

Today I can announce we will be spending almost £4million with Thales and General Dynamics Land Systems-UK to deliver the Ajax Shot Detection System which can sense enemy gunfire and protect troops using our next generation armoured vehicles.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... rn-defence

[Lord Jim]

Does gunfire here include a 125mm APFSDS round fired by a T-90?

[The Armchair Soldier]

[Ron5]

I am curious, is this similar to the role that the BA wants Ajax to perform?

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/05/mar ... fcs-redux/

[Lord Jim]

I think you are on the right track, but it is more to what the British Army had on its wish list of FRES SV/Ajax before they had to cut capabilities from the family. Saying that what the USMC seem to be working towards could be seen as the next generation Stryker family, which is something the AS Army could be interested in, especially the new capabilities they aim to introduce. It is also something the British Army should keep an eye on for possible future procurement in order to enhance the "Strike" brigades.

Forming fully capable Recce regiments using the Ajax should have been a no brainer for the Army, the cost of the additional variants could have been found if they had been willing to fight for it. It is the same argument I have put else where of new guns with no bullets as someone once said (or at least something like that).

[Dahedd]

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/land ... rations-a/

120mm on an Ascod chassis. Something we should be looking at as an Ajax variant?

[RetroSicotte]

Was originally the plan.

But as ever, delays, uncertainty, nerves about ordering and good old fashioned dithering pushed it out of the budget.

[benny14]

Looks like Athena.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/land ... rations-a/

120mm on an Ascod chassis. Something we should be looking at as an Ajax variant?

It actually looks like a 120mm gun on a Scout/Ajax chassis, to be more precise?

[Dahedd]

Even better

[Lord Jim]

If the MoD actually got its act together the "Lost" variants could still emerge funding permitting.

[RetroSicotte]

On a note, the French are increasing the numbers of Jaguars they're getting by 48, to a total of 300. All fully armed with CT40 and ATGMs.

The Ajax isn't as comparable to it as people often say but it's remarkable how many problems would be solved with just a little investment in this thing. A few extra turreted ones and ATGMs on them and Warriors would quantum leap their capability without needing a whole separate direct fire variant.

[Dahedd]

If the Ajax with a 120mm cannon now exists & if the Challengers are as obsolete as claimed, is there now not a strong argument to buy this version & ditch the Challenger altogether?

[RunningStrong]

If the Ajax with a 120mm cannon now exists & if the Challengers are as obsolete as claimed, is there now not a strong argument to buy this version & ditch the Challenger altogether?

It doesn't, they're not and no.

[Ron5]

Pretty sure that Dahedd is Hammond's burner account.

Just kidding

[Dahedd]

Lol. God no.

I'd rather see a Challenger upgrade, New turret etc. Just getting money out of any politician is like blood from a stone.

[ArmChairCivvy]

a Challenger upgrade, New turret etc

Like the Leopard that was just unveiled with a LeClerq turret on it? Fitting a new gun into the old turret did not go far...

[Dahedd]

Agreed. It needs to be more than that but realistically I can't see a new British heavy weight tank coming any time soon

[Lord Jim]

In the grand scheme of things enough M1s or Leo2s to equip 2 Regiments plus a number for training would not break the bank compared to what is being spent on the Navy and Air Force. Until the attitude changes, except for Sf we should get out of the ground combat game, send troops into harms way without the best equipment available is just not acceptable.

[RunningStrong]

In the grand scheme of things enough M1s or Leo2s to equip 2 Regiments plus a number for training would not break the bank compared to what is being spent on the Navy and Air Force. Until the attitude changes, except for Sf we should get out of the ground combat game, send troops into harms way without the best equipment available is just not acceptable.

Hang on, Army is reportedly getting...

AJAX, CR2 LEP, WCSP, MIV, MRV-P (1 and 2), Sky Sabre, SA80A3, Apache E...

If, big if, that all happens then the core will be pretty good.

[benny14]

send troops into harms way without the best equipment available is just not acceptable.

If the Army gets what is in the equipment plan, they are going to be very well equipped.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Other than the SA80 upgrade to A3 (and earmarking part of the Apache force for support of the RM) all of those listed by RunningStrong are - for a good number of years to come - for bringing the 3rd Division up to scratch... I guess that's what the reference to "the core" was there for?

[RetroSicotte]

If the Army gets what is in the equipment plan, they are going to be very well equipped.

They really aren't. The equipment plan is woefully unambitious. From an equipment standpoint, even if everything planned right now goes ahead, they are still not getting several things to match peer formations.

But to go into the full explanation why would go beyond the scope of this thread, as such for Ajax specifically, while everyone else in the world is throwing Cannon+ATGMs on their vehicles, Ajax remains only a gun vehicle, for example. And having lost the direct fire and overwatch variants, Ajax routes absolutely require external support to handle encounters that other nations would simply deal with and move on, saving the CAS/Artillery for things that truly need it.

What the British Army has is excellent platforms. They have the potential to be the best in the world. They have the space, the means, the options and the fitting allowance. You could do so much with Ajax. But they're only doing the bare minimum, and that's what worries me.

[Timmymagic]

means, the options and the fitting allowance. You could do so much with Ajax. But they're only doing the bare minimum, and that's what worries me.

All True.

The one thing really missing on everyone's equipment list though. And its the glaring unforgivable omission. Artillery. The single thing that has been the difference between winning and losing battles for centuries and we're allowing it to atrophy. All of those other programmes don't matter one bit if we don't have decent artillery (and in sufficient numbers).

[mr.fred]

In the grand scheme of things enough M1s or Leo2s to equip 2 Regiments plus a number for training would not break the bank compared to what is being spent on the Navy and Air Force.

Don’t forget training, spares, and logistics support.