Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
mr.fred
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

Jake1992 wrote:I first thought that but then comes the part that makes me question it, the Reece Ajax has 4 dismounts and doesn’t seem to need that extra head room.
It doesn’t have 4 dismounts. Four crew, perhaps.

Andy-M
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Andy-M »

Just saw this on ARRSE, looks like they're finally appearing.


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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by J. Tattersall »

Good to see. :clap:

SW1
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by SW1 »

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... a41a7aa603

UK to reassess Ajax programme
UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) procurement chiefs are reassessing the GBP5.3 billion (USD6.7 billion) Ajax programme after the first batch of production standard armoured fighting vehicles (AFVs) was found not to be ready for delivery.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Wow, Stephen Lovegrove is preparing to issue a formal notification to the UK parliament’s Public Accounts Committee about the reassessment.
- doesn't happen every day
- perhaps an opportunity to assess also the mix of versions within the total order - to me e.g. the Joint Fires vehicles come in a very low count. I'm sure that fiddling with the total value would bring penalties
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Janes says Ajax prgrm is £5.3 bn, whereas GD UK pages say "The AJAX programme, a £4.5 billion programme to deliver 589..."
- anyone know how the almost bn difference is spent? Good old GFE - like the CTA gun? Sounds like a lot, but any ISTAR bits would quickly drive up that total (if any included)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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whitelancer
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by whitelancer »

Demonstration phase contract signed 2010, £500 million.
Order placed 2014 for 589 Scout SV vehicles, totalling a cost of £3.5 billion excluding VAT.
Total cost at least £4 billion. Oh and this a £390 million maintenance package running until 2024.
As I recall when the order was placed their was not even a prototype of Ajax itself, which means it was placed before the demonstration phase was completed. In other words the Government/MOD placed the contract with no proof that GD could deliver what they were promising.
Surprise surprise now their is a problem, how could anyone have predicted that!

Who thought it was a good idea putting the RWS on top of the turret like that. Its meant to be a bloody recce vehicle.
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RunningStrong
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

It's interesting that you assume this is GD failing to deliver. Perhaps in time the truth will come out...
whitelancer wrote: Who thought it was a good idea putting the RWS on top of the turret like that. Its meant to be a bloody recce vehicle.
Good thing that's only an optional fit, the Orion sight normally sits there.

Lord Jim
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

RunningStrong wrote:t's interesting that you assume this is GD failing to deliver. Perhaps in time the truth will come out...
The have only delivered around 6 of the Ares variant so far to the Army, no turreted versions.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:to the Army, no turreted versions
- is that the pointer? Surely the statement will give reasons/describe the problems
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

RunningStrong
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:t's interesting that you assume this is GD failing to deliver. Perhaps in time the truth will come out...
The have only delivered around 6 of the Ares variant so far to the Army, no turreted versions.
Well aware. Also aware that it's much, much more complicated than suggesting GD aren't delivering to their promises.

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whitelancer
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by whitelancer »

RunningStrong wrote:It's interesting that you assume this is GD failing to deliver. Perhaps in time the truth will come out..
As Ajax should have been entering service by now clearly GD has failed to deliver. As to why, well you seem to know more than I.
What I was mainly criticising was the procurement process, in particular the decision to order Ajax without even a working prototype. The whole point of a demonstration phase is surely to demonstrate the ability to deliver what is expected even if all the I's aren't dotted and the T's crossed.

RunningStrong
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

whitelancer wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:It's interesting that you assume this is GD failing to deliver. Perhaps in time the truth will come out..
As Ajax should have been entering service by now clearly GD has failed to deliver. As to why, well you seem to know more than I.
What I was mainly criticising was the procurement process, in particular the decision to order Ajax without even a working prototype. The whole point of a demonstration phase is surely to demonstrate the ability to deliver what is expected even if all the I's aren't dotted and the T's crossed.
I completely agree that it was a very strange time to award a production contract, but it was clearly a politically-timed decision based in the British Government commitment to NATO funding at the time.

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whitelancer
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by whitelancer »

RunningStrong wrote:I completely agree that it was a very strange time to award a production contract, but it was clearly a politically-timed decision based in the British Government commitment to NATO funding at the time.
It wasn't just a strange decision it was a stupid decision. While I understand political considerations sometimes override more practical ones, in this case it was little more than a PR exercise and was totally unnecessary.

As to the actual problem it cant be something trivial, and I suspect its been around a long time, so surely it would have been highlighted if they had actually completed the demonstration phase. No doubt they have been frantically trying to fix it but have so far failed. Unless of course it is the Government/MOD looking for an excuse to get out of the whole program!

bobp
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by bobp »

I heard that the problem is to do with Quality Control at the Spanish production facility, do not know what the issue is but sounds major.

Lord Jim
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

Well at least the delay etc. may give us the opportunity to revise the number of each configuration, and the actual configurations themselves, such as installing an ATGW on the Scout variant, and possibly including within the current total, some of the variants previously discarded.

My personal preference though would be to cancel the production contract entirely as I do not actually see a role for the vehicle anymore and the money could be used elsewhere within the Army's AFV recapitalisation programme.

RunningStrong
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

whitelancer wrote:.
As to the actual problem it cant be something trivial,
Can't it?

bobp
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by bobp »

Lord Jim wrote:I do not actually see a role for the vehicle
Wheeled vehicles such as the Boxer with 120mm Gun Turret and ATGW would be my choice.


Andy-M
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Andy-M »

General Dynamics’ AJAX production team in Merthyr Tydfil has completed production of the first UK fully-assembled, integrated and tested Ajax family armoured vehicle, video in twitter link.

https://defpost.com/general-dynamics-co ... y-vehicle/

Ron5
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

Excellent news.

Lord Jim
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

Yes at least it is a small step forward, but they still have yet to deliver any of the turreted version to the Army.

Ron5
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

Lord Jim wrote:Yes at least it is a small step forward, but they still have yet to deliver any of the turreted version to the Army.
C Squadron Household Cav

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Lord Jim
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

When did they get those? The last report was that the Army had only received the Ares version and they were at Bovington.

bobp
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicle Variants (British Army)

Post by bobp »

They may have one to play with....
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?view ... 3tYnpsT0WA

As part of the demo program

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