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British Army Trials and Development Units.

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
arfah
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British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby arfah » 16 Sep 2016, 21:03

....................
-<>-<>-<>-

Why this forum is pish!

1: Ineffective moderators
2: Too many fantasists ruining dedicated equipment threads with notions of what gun/mortar/artillery/missiles the equipment should have because it makes their panties moist.

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Gabriele
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby Gabriele » 16 Sep 2016, 21:25

Mirroring the US Army's own approach, in practice. The British Army has a team space reserved in the US own Trials and Development events, and this will reciprocate that.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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arfah
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby arfah » 16 Sep 2016, 21:30

.......................
-<>-<>-<>-

Why this forum is pish!

1: Ineffective moderators
2: Too many fantasists ruining dedicated equipment threads with notions of what gun/mortar/artillery/missiles the equipment should have because it makes their panties moist.

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Gabriele
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby Gabriele » 17 Sep 2016, 10:03

arfah wrote:
Gabriele wrote:Mirroring the US Army's own approach, in practice. The British Army has a team space reserved in the US own Trials and Development events, and this will reciprocate that.


An infantry team from the US Army will also be involved in the trials


Exactly. A way to reciprocate the US Army favor. A good way to cooperate... let's just hope something good comes out of it, and not just in the test phase.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 Jan 2017, 10:27

May be , with better sensors/ 360-view, the time is now to repeat this (Swedish) concept with a 120mm gun (130; the new Rhenmetall piece?) using a Ch2 hull and drivetrain (even power should be OK, with weight going down):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lbswAiIUNQE/U ... /UDES3.jpg

Looks like the supply vehicle is articulated, but you could make it "optionally manned" so that taking up protected firing position by the gun itself becomes easier.

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby Andy-M » 15 Jan 2017, 10:58

ArmChairCivvy wrote:May be , with better sensors/ 360-view, the time is now to repeat this (Swedish) concept with a 120mm gun (130; the new Rhenmetall piece?) using a Ch2 hull and drivetrain (even power should be OK, with weight going down):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lbswAiIUNQE/U ... /UDES3.jpg

Looks like the supply vehicle is articulated, but you could make it "optionally manned" so that taking up protected firing position by the gun itself becomes easier.


How about something like the Falcon Turret the Jordanians have put on Challenger 1, bigger gun as you say and with Chobham armour.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/falcon_turret.htm

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 Jan 2017, 11:48

It is currently into its 3rd development iteration
"Up to 17 rounds can be stowed in the bustle autoloader. Loading mechanism and ready-to-use ammunition are separated from the crew."

I think the initial concept was too much of a modern day "Sturm" - focussed on anti-tank duty, but with limited rounds (w/o the crew leaving armour cover).

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby RetroSicotte » 15 Jan 2017, 13:18

Falcon Turret isn't unmanned though. It's just a low crew position, they're still in the turret itself.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 Jan 2017, 13:44

I would be amazed, though, if the autoloader could be replenished under armour, in such a restricted space?

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby RetroSicotte » 15 Jan 2017, 13:56

It's not impossible in theory. I'd have to confirm this but I think the Leclerc's can be. It's just very awkward and requires turning the turret. It's not an inherantly unusual thing, the Leopard 2 for example has to turn its turret 90 degrees away to replenish its turret stocks every 15-18 shots. (Sources differ)

So no concrete answer, but it's not an impossibility.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 06 Dec 2018, 11:32

Not an impossibility, either, that nxt-gen tanks could be on wheels, using in-wheel fluid drive motors.

Check this out (so should the Development Unit)
"The system, Ferox CEO Troy Wheeler tells us over Skype from his Perth office, can handle insanely high torques. The motors in the Azaris[6-wheel all-terrain proto] could handle up to 500 lb-ft (678 Nm) per wheel if they were attached to a motor that could put that kind of torque out, and they've got bigger units tested up to 850 lb-ft (1,152 Nm). Four of those would happily drive your average giant Haulpak mining truck.

They're also incredibly efficient, the pump and motors operating at an impressive 98 percent efficiency without running the high pressures or temperatures traditionally associated with hydraulic drive systems."
https://newatlas.com/ferox-azaris-in-wh ... ead%20more

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby RetroSicotte » 06 Dec 2018, 13:00

The problem with wheels for MBTs in that form is the ride height has to be very high. Wheeled units are very tall if they are to have the size of wheels for that weight (60+ tonnes) and obstacle clearance of a tank. You end up with a very high vehicle that is exposed and unable to make use of hull down.

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby Lord Jim » 06 Dec 2018, 19:28

Probably the best you could get is the Italian Centauro Mk2, but this platform still falls way short on protection.

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 06 Dec 2018, 21:01

Lord Jim wrote:Probably the best you could get is the Italian Centauro Mk2, but this platform still falls way short on protection.


If you are trying to use it as a like-for-like replacement for an MBT then sure, not if you know to play to its strengths though.

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby Lord Jim » 07 Dec 2018, 02:40

I really like how the Italians are developing their Cavalry units using the Centauro variants as the core. Hopefully someone at the MoD is taking notes.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Dec 2018, 05:14

Lord Jim wrote:Cavalry units using the Centauro variants as the core.

Someone has "been taking notes" as in the 'better days' before 2014 (May 2012, more exactly) this was reported by army-technology.com:
"The Russian Army is testing the B1 Centauro 8×8 wheeled tank, built by Finnmeccanica subsidiary Oto-Melara at a Moscow Region proving ground.

The spokesman for the company was quoted by RIA Novosti as saying that the first two vehicles, armed with 105mm and 125mm guns, have arrived in Novorossiysk and are currently being evaluated by the army.

"Two more Centauros with 120mm and 30mm guns will also join the trials in another six weeks," the spokesman said. "The tanks will take part in laboratory, driving and firing trials."

Field trials are scheduled to be complete by the end of the year, following which Russia will consider creating a joint venture for production of the tank with an enterprise from the Russian military-industrial complex. "
- the 120 mm is now Centauro II, but we never got to hear how it managed the 125mm gun (the same as used on current Russian tanks)

Since then tracks and divisions have prevailed over wheels and brigades
- which is not to say that the concept would not have been proved in the above trials
- more like: if you want to ramp up quickly, continue to make what you already have production lines for. Think of the outcome of Battle of Britain if we had decided to switch all Hurricane production lines to Spitfires, in one go

What I did not know is that Oman has Centauros, on the side of Chally2s. They did not figure in the photos from the recent large-ish exercise; a trial of sorts.
- an opportunity lost? pitching two differently configured forces against each other

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Re: British Army Trials and Development Units.

Postby Lord Jim » 08 Dec 2018, 00:10

It will be interesting as the British Army conduct their trials and training towards to goal of establishing the "Strike" Brigade(s) whether they incorporate platforms currently not on order or planned to see if they are needed or not for the formations to be effective. For example at the simpler end of things, can the formation rely on dismounted ATGW teams in an environment where hostile artillery is a real issue? At the higher end does the formation need both integral direct and indirect fire capability? I really hope the MoD takes the opportunity to look beyond what ahs already been announced, as the "Strike" Brigade(s) are going to be at the forefront of the Army for years to come. Of course the MDP and the possible enlarged MIV buy could change everything. I would if the possibility existed see the two Armoured Infantry and two "Strike" brigades replaced by three Mechanised Brigades and two independent Recce Regiments. The Mechanised Brigades being one Armoured, three mechanised and one Artillery Regiment.


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