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Royal Marines boats

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abc123
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Royal Marines boats

Postby abc123 » 14 Mar 2017, 16:46

It seem's to me that there's no thread for RMs various boats. I don't have now the time to write something more about them, but I wonder, do anyone knows the cost of this boat ( and other data like displacement, range etc. ):

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_ ... 68x247.jpg ( Yes, it's a bit old article, but never mind that )

Fast Interceptor Craft

Additional link: http://www.eliteukforces.info/uksf-gear/stealth-boat/
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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby SKB » 14 Mar 2017, 17:20

Theres a Royal Marines hovercraft thread too
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=291

abc123
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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby abc123 » 14 Mar 2017, 18:01

SKB wrote:Theres a Royal Marines hovercraft thread too
https://www.ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=291



Yes, I have seen that. Well, you can merge it, if you want, or rename old tread, or whatever...
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What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 Mar 2017, 18:04

abc123 wrote:data like displacement, range etc. ):


May be you can do some comparisons in the same go: http://www.isayeret.com/content/units/n ... s13-52.gif

Or: http://www.hisutton.com/SEALION%20and%2 ... boats.html
- semi-submersibles being the best in beating radar surveillance
- N. Korea and Iran being great fans of those (also for other purposes than inserting special forces teams)... they just play on quantity, not so much on technology, so perhaps best to skip those

Ehmm, I expect us to come on top, nothing less

No need to merge with hovercraft that are noisy as hell (well, all of these go fast)

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby marktigger » 14 Mar 2017, 18:18

will this include discussion about Landing craft, work boats like the old combat support boats that 3 cdo brigade use?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 Mar 2017, 20:56

Why not everything that touches the water properly (not just skirting it like with a hovercraft)?

We have already sold our own prototype , but e.g. Russia has in service what they call air-cavity LCs and these (which come somewhere between a hydrofoil and a Landing Craft):
The Dugon class was designed by the Alexeyev hydrofoil design bureau in Nizhny Novgorod.

The first three ships of the class, named Denis Davydov, Lieutenant Rimsky-Korsakov and Michman Lermontov, are under construction at the Yaroslavsky shipyard.

The Dugon class ships displace 280 tons, have a length of 45 meters (147.6 feet), a beam of 8.6 meters (28.2 feet), and a top speed of 35 knots, and are powered by two 9,000 h.p. M507A-2D diesels.

The "ships" have a crew of seven and can carry a payload of 140 tons, including three tanks or five BTR troop carriers.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 Mar 2017, 21:14

Indeed, these fast infiltrator boats (the Russian example at 35 knots is still fast, but punches heavier than just "infiltrating") have become so important that this family (Copyright of SAAB AB)
http://mediaportal.saabgroup.com/#/items/25544 includes a special antimeasures boat for such, supposedly 55m long and with a stealth gun turret.
- Finnish Jehu class are also getting armed with such interception in mind
- they possess a suitable speed for such taskings (>40 knots/46 mph/74 km/h (lightship))

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby james k » 10 Sep 2017, 16:06

Royal Marines Boats and associated Army vessels

Island Class Patrol Vessels - Rona and Mull. There was another transferred from the MOD police and converted called Eorsa. It was not returned to the MOD Police but does not appear on the books. They have Kevlar armour, two twin machine gun mountings on a 14.9m long hull. Capable of 33 Knots they also have extensive surveillance equipment including Infra Red and Thermal Imaging. There are a further eight boats serving with the MOD Police, seven of them on the Clyde.

Landing Craft Utility MK10 - There are ten of these vessels operated by the Corps.
Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel Mk5A/B - There are nineteen LCVP's Mk5 operated by the Royal Marines
Landing Craft Air Cushioned 2400TD - the Royal Marines operate four of these craft
Offshore raiding Craft Troop Carrying Variant and Fire Support Variant - The Royal Marines operate thirty nine ORC's
Rigid Raiding Craft MK3 - Operated by the Royal Marines, 24 Commando Regiment Royal Engineers and Royal Logistics Corps 17& 165 Port & Maritime Regiments.
RTK 508 Marine Combat Support Boat - 8.8 meters long, 30 knots these boats have a detachable front cockpit and carry a 2 ton payload. They are operated by the Royal Engineers and the RLC Port & Maritime Regiments
Workboat - Four boats operated by the two Port and Maritime Regiments in support of amphibious operations.
Arctic & Pacific Rigid Inflatable Boats - Operated by the Royal Marines, Royal Navy, RLC and Royal Engineers.
MEXE Float 60 Ton Capacity & 120 Ton Capacity - Operated by the two RLC Port & maritime Regiments built up as required from sections.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Ron5 » 10 Sep 2017, 16:24

I expect to see some 11m ribbies ordered for Type 26 someday.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby james k » 10 Sep 2017, 16:57

Perhaps or given the change of role of 42 Commando more Offshore Raiding Craft. There is an order for 38 new workboats the smallest of which is 11M so the Type 26 might carry one of more of those.

Ron5 wrote:I expect to see some 11m ribbies ordered for Type 26 someday.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Smokey » 10 Sep 2017, 17:12

There was an order of new RHIB's placed about a year or so ago for the RN.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps ... scheduled/

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Ron5 » 10 Sep 2017, 17:21

They little ones, the Type 26 specifically designed to accommodate four 11m ribbies which I don't think the RM have yet.

Of course both the little ones and the big ones are fine Bae products. Yeah, go Bae :-)

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 24 Sep 2017, 04:49

Whereas this "project" has gone all quiet (may be the ORCs and the smaller Raiding Craft are enough?):
" The CB90 or a similar vessel may in future fulfill the Royal Marines concept of the 'Future Force Protection Craft'. It is intended that such a vessel would provide a Task Group in the littoral zones protection from hostile fast attack craft.They [CB90s for testing] were returned around 2013."
- at 14.9 m they are almost as long as LCVPs (under a meter of difference)

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby shark bait » 25 Sep 2017, 14:07

That's another reason why the Marines like the CB90, its compatible with the same davits that LCVP is, and the CB90 has already had launch and recovery trials from HMS Albion.

I always thought it would have been nice if the T26's mission bay was sized to fit a LCVP/CB90 Davit.
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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Repulse » 15 Jun 2019, 19:38

With news that the UK is deploying 100 RMs to protect UK ships passing through the Gulf, what will they take with them - will the ORCs be enough? Shame the CB90 discussions haven’t gone anywhere.

Perhaps fantasy, but in my view there is a gap in the RN fleet which is a Littoral Patrol Ship that can add firepower if needed and all round security - something a Frigate would be more exposed in doing. Personally, a modern version of the Cyclone class would work IMO, perhaps buying 12 and putting 2 in the Gulf, 2 in Cyprus and 2 in Gib, the rest in the UK on stand by.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -xgpll0gkj
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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Jake1992 » 15 Jun 2019, 19:46

Wouldn’t the new USN Mk6 patrol boat fit this role and be a nice fit for gin and cypress look perfect to me.

Replace all the archers and the scimitars with them for training and the above type of roles.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby SW1 » 16 Jun 2019, 09:07

Repulse wrote:With news that the UK is deploying 100 RMs to protect UK ships passing through the Gulf,


If they are it’s an interesting development one role returning the RM to there core roots. Though I think it shouldn’t be announced in a Sunday newspaper prior to parliament but then those days I guess are over. I wish them luck and a quite deployment.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby SW1 » 16 Jun 2019, 09:27

Jake1992 wrote:Wouldn’t the new USN Mk6 patrol boat fit this role and be a nice fit


Yes it would. I do like that type of craft and it is something we lack especially if we looking at focusing on littoral strike/maritime security/choke point protection role. I would wrap it into a more strategic outlook both industrially and military wise. As mentioned such vessel could replace the archer patrol vessels as well. So order them in numbers allows for them to provide training and to be distributed around the uk, in for example the Clyde out to the north west approaches, perhaps from roysth out to the North Sea and along the channel coast and indeed Gibraltar the RNs traditional areas of choke point for training and presence.

Taking it a step further this is imo the ideal starting platform for uk developing its unmanned systems capability, I would like to see the mine warfare, asw, ew, force protection, hydrographic options being integrated onto such a vessel in a unmanned and optionally manned format. If like the US have they’re designed to be deployable from a well dock then they become a really deployable capability able to undertake a wide number of roles.

Could be build in yard in England as working with ours specialist sensor providers offer a very capable solution to many including countries who just wish to operate such vessels from shore in say west Africa or the Caribbean specially in the optionally manned role. We have some suitable start points in the Shannon or Severn class lifeboat hulls.

Ultimate thought even if you bought straight from the US it’s would be a great starting point for a littoral strike group a bay, 4 such patrol vessels, 2 wildcat, 5 scan eagles air vehicles and 80 RM. would require considerable investment to make it happen.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Jake1992 » 16 Jun 2019, 10:01

SW1 wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:Wouldn’t the new USN Mk6 patrol boat fit this role and be a nice fit


Yes it would. I do like that type of craft and it is something we lack especially if we looking at focusing on littoral strike/maritime security/choke point protection role. I would wrap it into a more strategic outlook both industrially and military wise. As mentioned such vessel could replace the archer patrol vessels as well. So order them in numbers allows for them to provide training and to be distributed around the uk, in for example the Clyde out to the north west approaches, perhaps from roysth out to the North Sea and along the channel coast and indeed Gibraltar the RNs traditional areas of choke point for training and presence.

Taking it a step further this is imo the ideal starting platform for uk developing its unmanned systems capability, I would like to see the mine warfare, asw, ew, force protection, hydrographic options being integrated onto such a vessel in a unmanned and optionally manned format. If like the US have they’re designed to be deployable from a well dock then they become a really deployable capability able to undertake a wide number of roles.

Could be build in yard in England as working with ours specialist sensor providers offer a very capable solution to many including countries who just wish to operate such vessels from shore in say west Africa or the Caribbean specially in the optionally manned role. We have some suitable start points in the Shannon or Severn class lifeboat hulls.

Ultimate thought even if you bought straight from the US it’s would be a great starting point for a littoral strike group a bay, 4 such patrol vessels, 2 wildcat, 5 scan eagles air vehicles and 80 RM. would require considerable investment to make it happen.


What sort of price per unit would you consider to be realistic for us ? If I remember right the Mk6 is around £12m per unit that comes with 2 x 25mm chain guns, several mounts for GPMG mini guns or light missiles, ramp and recovery system for pacific 24 rhib size systems and a reasonable radar set up

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 16 Jun 2019, 10:51

Beauty of Archer class comes from its cheapness and simple design.

Mk.6 Patrol Boat is much more complex and costy asset (more weapon, much higher speed...), which means either a few times larger cost (purchase and maintenance) or a few times less number of hulls. If mixing with Archer class replacements, how shall we deal with URNU?

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby SW1 » 16 Jun 2019, 11:00

Jake1992 wrote:What sort of price per unit would you consider to be realistic for us ? If I remember right the Mk6 is around £12m per unit that comes with 2 x 25mm chain guns, several mounts for GPMG mini guns or light missiles, ramp and recovery system for pacific 24 rhib size systems and a reasonable radar set up


I don’t know what we would be willing to pay however I would recon 10-15m pound price would not be unrealistic for the full level specification. If your serious about transforming into this space and consider its importance increasing then I would find it to that level by making reductions elsewhere.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby SW1 » 16 Jun 2019, 11:05

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Beauty of Archer class comes from its cheapness and simple design.

Mk.6 Patrol Boat is much more complex and costy asset (more weapon, much higher speed...), which means either a few times larger cost (purchase and maintenance) or a few times less number of hulls. If mixing with Archer class replacements, how shall we deal with URNU?


The base vessel is not complex in design. The urnu would use the vessel as well either without the sensors and weapons fitted or with only some fitting to give a more realistic training environment for moving into the fleet.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Tempest414 » 16 Jun 2019, 13:19

What could be done in the here and now is send 3 Archer class boats fitted with the 20mm cannon that they are FFBNW plus 2 x minigun's .

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Jake1992 » 16 Jun 2019, 13:49

What about something like the barracuda Stealth Boat for this role ?

https://www.safehavenmarine.com/barracuda

They’re a good deal smaller than the Mk6 so more could be transported via a bay class, they also carry more troops but don’t pack as bigger punch.

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Re: Royal Marines boats

Postby Caribbean » 16 Jun 2019, 15:38

Tempest414 wrote:What could be done in the here and now is send 3 Archer class boats fitted with the 20mm cannon that they are FFBNW plus 2 x minigun's .

IIRC only two are still capable of mounting the 20mm (Ranger and Trumpeter?). Another two were built with armour plating, so would also probably be immediately suitable. They could probably all mount a couple of 50 cal/ miniguns without major modification.
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