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Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

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Repulse
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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Repulse » 02 Feb 2020, 11:48

SW1 wrote:https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/sna-2020/2020/01/video-day-1-at-sna-2020/


The new Austal HSSV design looks interesting and possibly is a good match for the USN/USMC and even RAN, but can’t see it being a good fit for the RN/RM.

IMO the UK requires a mixed capability of:
- large RFA platforms with long endurance able to transit to any part of the world and stay at length offshore for low threat environments.
- smaller and numerous (stealth) platforms capable of being launched OTH as part of an initial wave.
- larger (warship) platforms capable of getting close to shore, neutralising A2/AD threats, securing the littoral zone for smaller craft and providing land attack capabilities (a modern day Monitor).
- RFA (or other) platform that can land kit and troops for a follow up battlegroup / strike brigade.

The HSSV ticks none of these boxes.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 02 Feb 2020, 11:59

SW1 wrote:https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/sna-2020/2020/01/video-day-1-at-sna-2020/


We also have remember that the US will not be getting rid of there Wasp class ships or large docks these will just be added and if the UK was to go for this what would we get 3 -4 that would cut two 2 maybe and being ally it will burn like a bitch if it is hit

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby jedibeeftrix » 02 Feb 2020, 15:37

Tempest414 wrote:
SW1 wrote:https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/sna-2020/2020/01/video-day-1-at-sna-2020/


We also have remember that the US will not be getting rid of there Wasp class ships or large docks these will just be added and if the UK was to go for this what would we get 3 -4 that would cut two 2 maybe and being ally it will burn like a bitch if it is hit

and yet this same argument is so often made to justify turning the RM into speedboat riding commandos with daggers clamped twixt teeth...

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby SW1 » 02 Feb 2020, 19:52

The US marines maintain there well docks to deliver 2 brigade over a beach. Two brigades who’s makeup allow them to operate like a UK army armoured brigade. This is far far beyond anything the uk can do even there smallest formation an MEU possesses capability in terms of vehicles, artillery and rotary lift far beyond what the uk deploys regularly. So any comparisons be uk royal marine and us marine ground manoeuvre capabilities are fanciful. Nor is there any sort of budget to even start closing that gap before even asking should we.

The ability to have distributed commando companies or sf squadrons for Maritime security roles, counter terrorist roles, counter narcotics operations, capacity building with allies raiding operations is growing and clearly being talked about. The ability to deploy a company of medium vehicles around the european theatre of operations rapidly with the ability to utilise shallow port facilities also interesting. The ability to conduct fwd deployed disaster relief thru the ability to accept hospital capability also interesting. The bay class have proven how capable a cheap flexible fwd deployed platform can be able to re role between a variety of tasks. It maybe interesting to augment the bay class with vessels similar to this especially as the RM transitions away from seaborne infantry to commando operations.

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby SW1 » 17 Feb 2020, 15:20

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... one-skills

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-m ... an-fjords/

It is no easy task piloting the ORCs through an area of surface ice – especially at high speed, making these run outs in the waters around Hellarbogen, Norway, essential.

“It’s great getting myself and the rest of the lads used to a completely new environment,” said Corporal Ryan Joslin, ORC Section Commander.

“We’re typically used to operating the craft in milder climates, which presents different challenges for the craft and coxswains.

“Since being upgraded, this is the first time we’ve had a chance to use the new engines in extreme cold weather and they’ve handled it perfectly so far.

“This, mixed with the incredible scenery is making every trip out in the water, as cold as it is, pretty special.

“Floating ice can be hard to spot and poses risks to the craft. It’s the first time I’ve personally manoeuvred a boat section though an area of surface ice and had to overcome the challenges it presents.”

The craft are a rapid means of manoeuvring personnel into combat and are key in bringing the fire and fury of the Royal Marines to the frontline.

In total, 16 craft have arrived in the high north – six Offshore Raiding Craft, eight Inshore Raiding Craft and two Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel – having been loaded up in the UK and transported by Sealift Ro-Ro, MV Hurst Point, to Scandinavia.

1AGRM’s deployment to the region is essential in ensuring the amphibious mobility of the Royal Marines in the unforgiving Arctic environment.

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby RetroSicotte » 18 Feb 2020, 08:51

Ah, there's that term again "more flexible".

MoD speak for "less capable".

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Repulse
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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Repulse » 03 Apr 2020, 20:18

Ive never seen RFA Fort Victoria with A LCVP on the flight deck before - shows the flexibility

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 03 Apr 2020, 22:04

I wonder if that crane can reach more than one of them? It would seem to have a box painted onto the deck
- just a way to get some supplies ashore, in difficult places

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Repulse » 03 Apr 2020, 22:57

I’d say no given this shot, but not sure if the other cranes could lift others located amidships.

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”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby shark bait » 07 Apr 2020, 09:07

Nice shots. Where are they from please?
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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby SKB » 07 Apr 2020, 11:04

Please give credits to all photos or images linked from other websites. ^

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 07 Apr 2020, 17:30

Royal Navy website ... come on on guys get a clue.

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Repulse
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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Repulse » 07 Apr 2020, 20:58

SKB wrote:Please give credits to all photos or images linked from other websites. ^


Linked to the original images on the RN website
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 27 Apr 2020, 12:40

A good report on Forces TV regarding this years Exercise "Cold Response 2020" which was prematurely ended due to he outbreak, but shows where we are headed regarding operation in the High north and how we are continuing to operate with our allies and some of the capabilities they bring to joint operations.


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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Jake1992 » 10 Jun 2020, 09:42

Could we start to see a 3 way set up of western amphibious vessel in the likes of something like this -

1 - tradition LPDs / LHDs to bring the bulk of the force for larger scale ops

2 - these new LST style vessels for small ops in relitively undefended areas ( as with only a couple of 30mm I can’t see them being sent to high threat areas, at least not alone )

3 - absalon style vessel that can conduct small scale ops in higher threat areas along with LSS style role.


The big question is which way does the UK go ? We can’t afford all 3 types but can we afford to give up larger vessel with out it been seen as a big down turn in power projection ?
This brings me back to thinking the T31s would of been best as an Absalon style vessel giving use greater over all flexibility.

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 10 Jun 2020, 09:47

Here we go again! LSS Anyone? :mrgreen:

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 10 Jun 2020, 09:58

When men can't be moved around (ref. Cold Response, above), machines can:
https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/secur ... -1-bombers

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 10 Jun 2020, 10:04

SW1 wrote:https://news.usni.org/2020/06/08/marine ... operations


I can't see the UK having a use for this it has a short range and little defence and if the UK did go for this How many , what for and where. They are bang on for the US in the Pacific for Island hoping

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby shark bait » 10 Jun 2020, 10:07

The UK should. The current model puts far too much risk on a single point of failure sat a couple of miles off a hostile coast, which should be totally unacceptable. That risk has to be distributed.
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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 10 Jun 2020, 10:19

By taking on this (additional) role, it does not remove the need for bigger, more flexible (and more efficient) LHD/LPD Amphibious Landing Ships etc. Just more vessels, more commitments and more cost (To be paid for by a lower headcount)! Madness, Total Madness! :mrgreen:

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby SW1 » 10 Jun 2020, 10:23

Tempest414 wrote:
SW1 wrote:https://news.usni.org/2020/06/08/marine ... operations


I can't see the UK having a use for this it has a short range and little defence and if the UK did go for this How many , what for and where. They are bang on for the US in the Pacific for Island hoping


Depends what your using future commandos for there role is changing we aren’t doing what we used to.

This bit highlights there role

They would be based in areas where shore-to-shore movement of Marines and gear could be needed – places like the South China Sea if China were to fight for the islands and sea space it claims as its own, or the Baltic Sea if Russia were to make another land grab against a neighboring country – and would support the movement of Marine Littoral Regiments moving quickly from one piece of land to the next to conduct missions under the Expeditionary Advance Base Operations (EABO) concept.

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 10 Jun 2020, 10:37

Just what do you propose that WE use to protect these “Beached Whales” that you imply that we should procure? :mrgreen:

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Re: Current & Future Amphibious Capability - General Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 10 Jun 2020, 11:26

Jake1992 wrote:these new LST style vessels for small ops in relitively undefended areas


Russian take on the same theme ;they were dimensioned to fit inside the Mistrals but work fine (and fast) from shore to shore:


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