Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion

[Scimitar54]

How about:-
If the T26 is a C1 and
If the T31 (because of its armament and large “mission bays”) is used as a C3,
Then maybe, just maybe the T32 will become the “missing” C2.

[Darkest]

BAE sprayed a fair few different concepts. All Khareef/River class derivatives.

Guesses of what Type 32 might be:

- A typo and misunderstanding. Maybe we'll be getting Type 31 names instead. The Telegraph aint what it used to be...

- Type 31 derivative? Specialised for: ASW/AAW/MHC or even something like a UK PPA?

- LSS in a smaller Absalon or equivalent shape?

- River Batch 3 as above?

- More remotely, perhaps a long term replacement plan for the T26 and T45s with a single class of 'heavy' general purpose frigates? Named as such for politically strategic reasons but approaching cruiser scale in dimensions, if not capability.

I'm alao rather intrigued by the mention of a:

new multi-role research vessel

Is that an HMS Scott replacement? Wonderful news if so.

Maybe, with the announcement of a new Space Command, the Type 32 will be an interplanetary space frigate with laser weapons

[ArmChairCivvy]

Type 32?
The Type 82 or Bristol-class destroyer was to provide area air-defence over task forces and to serve as escorts to the planned CVA-01 aircraft carriers.
... RN history and 'stop the retreat'! The latter point translating to us getting more than one this time; as we do have the carriers

[donald_of_tokyo]

Guesses of what Type 32 might be:
- A typo and misunderstanding. Maybe we'll be getting Type 31 names instead. The Telegraph aint what it used to be...
- Type 31 derivative? Specialised for: ASW/AAW/MHC or even something like a UK PPA?
- LSS in a smaller Absalon or equivalent shape?
- River Batch 3 as above?
- More remotely, perhaps a long term replacement plan for the T26 and T45s with a single class of 'heavy' general purpose frigates? Named as such for politically strategic reasons but approaching cruiser scale in dimensions, if not capability.

Interesting.

I agree, there are variety of possibilities on T32. If it is already determined to be T31-batch2, it shall be written so. As the type number differs, it is clear nothing is fixed = anything is possible. (Even it will disappear ). Anyway, the "4 year £16.5 more money" is unrelated to T32, looks like as its build will not start within 4 years. (Personally, I think it will be better to build T32 at Clyde, so that T26 build can be speeded up, while shipyard continuity to T45 replacement can be filled with T32.)

But, the money is surely related to T26-batch2, as noted as "13 frigates ordered". Personally, I think discussing about "what upgrade can be foreseen in T26 B2" is more important than speculating T32. Radar replacement shall be important, adoption of ExLS to improve CAMM number is also a candidate.

I also hope Interim ASM get funded, and increased to 13-sets. If it is to be NSM, it is relatively unrelated to FC-ASW, which MUST also be a Storm-Shadow replacement = long-range land attack missile, and as such will be very expensive than NSM.

T31 up arming is not discussed yet. Written nowhere. As T31 is a "no change" contract (claimed to be important to control costs), up-arming requires new contract. I think current T31 has its own rationale = so-so good, so T31 may go as it is planned. Actually, it is exactly a Type-21 of the day with large growth margin (lessons learned) = armed as much as (or, "as less as") a typical heavy corvette of the day, but with good range and sea keeping.

But, "another persona" in myself hopes making 12-CAMM to 24 (may be not costly with little impact on the hull). Interim ASM can be also a good candidate. Adding hull-sonar will be also doable, but it needs adding ASW system (software and console, as well as increase in crew number), so not sure.

[Ron5]

Interesting posts from Jensy and Donald-san to get our imaginations running wild.

Cameron when the type 31 was announced did say that they opened the door for an expansion of the escort fleet. When added to the NSS idea of building some t31s and selling them off quick , I'm going to put my money down on the type 32 as being a type 31 batch 2 but with enough additional goodies to justify a new type number. Not that politicians need much in the way of excuses.

So what goodies would appeal to the likes of Cummings & Co?

Just gotta be a drone mothership armed with flicking lasers So maybe bigger flying deck, hangar and full width mission bay? And lots of platforms for Cumming's school kids toggling away at the controlers.

[bobp]

Adding hull-sonar will be also doable,

I understand T31 will have a bow sonar fitted when they are being outfitted.

[ArmChairCivvy]

LSS in a smaller Absalon or equivalent shape?

Were LSS not to disappear altogether, an Absalon-version out of T31 with habitability mods for an RM contingent (and a big hangar)... two if these?
- and one Point converted to bring a company+ onto the scene, when required (habitabilty for long stays would need to overcome the typically "thin" ship's services found on ro-ro vessels.
- when the whole idea took a more serious form (the sketched new-build, and also bigger Point is unlikely to be ordered) one of the folks crewing them told me that all crews had been invited to an unnamed port...I could imagine to look for those who would be undaunted with far fewer port visits

[Defiance]

So what goodies would appeal to the likes of Cummings & Co?

Just gotta be a drone mothership armed with flicking lasers So maybe bigger flying deck, hangar and full width mission bay? And lots of platforms for Cumming's school kids toggling away at the controlers.

UXV Combatant rises again!

[donald_of_tokyo]

I understand T31 will have a bow sonar fitted when they are being outfitted.

Interesting. Out of curiosity, from where these hull-sonars will come?

T23GP looks like going to be exported. Even if not, their S2050 hull sonar are not going to be upgraded to S2150 (like those onboard the 8 T23-ASWs), which means technical support might be not easy?

Also I'm not sure T31 bow sonar dome can accommodate S2050.

[Roders96]

I understand T31 will have a bow sonar fitted when they are being outfitted.

Interesting. Out of curiosity, from where these hull-sonars will come?

T23GP looks like going to be exported. Even if not, their S2050 hull sonar are not going to be upgraded to S2150 (like those onboard the 8 T23-ASWs), which means technical support might be not easy?

Also I'm not sure T31 bow sonar dome can accommodate S2050.

Probably the new money Donald.

[shark bait]

A typo and misunderstanding

I wasn't too excited, just had it down as a typo, until the defence sec came on the radio and mentions Type 32.

it may be a copy of whatever is pitched to the polish

I think you guessed it. T32 is an export version!

[RichardIC]

Devil's in the detail but on the face of it this is fantastic news.

Looks like the 3x FSS has got the go ahead but no sign of any LSS.

The T32 announcement is very very interesting also.

Devil is in the detail and this is a rushed announcement so detail probably isn't there. And Boris doesn't do detail anyway.

My hunch is that this "announcement" will just be re-announcing something that has already been announced and the 13 new frigates are the same eight Type 26 and five Type 31 we've already known about and that Type 32 is a typo. That is good news because the second batch of Type 26 looked under threat. I would be delighted to be wrong about Type 32.

The FSS was looking increasingly secure given recent announcements, even though the programme looks to now be less ambitious than original. Is it three or two? Dunno.

The new multi-role research thingy looks like a complete curve-ball. If I were having a wild stab I'd go for something to replace both Scott and Protector, based on RRS Sir David Attenborough.

[dmereifield]

it may be a copy of whatever is pitched to the polish

I think you guessed it. T32 is an export version!

According to STRN twitter feed:
NavyLookout

"@NavyLookout

Can confirm the Type 32 frigate mentioned by the Defence Secretary is an export version of Type 31. RN hopeful of additional a second batch beyond the 5 Type 31s on order with an aspiration for escort fleet of 24 Frigates & Destroyers"

Adds another layer of confusion - has someone placed an order? Are we going to see a second batch of T31 for RN?

[RichardIC]

I wasn't too excited, just had it down as a typo, until the defence sec came on the radio and mentions Type 32.

Hmmm. Like I said, delighted to be wrong.

[SW1]

Maybe there calling the next batch of type 26 the type 32

[Roders96]

They're probably looking to win the polish and NZ upcoming competition's.

Best way to win is to have it on the water, hot pot ready.

[RichardIC]

From The Telegraph

[Jensy]

it may be a copy of whatever is pitched to the polish

I think you guessed it. T32 is an export version!

According to STRN twitter feed:
NavyLookout

"@NavyLookout

Can confirm the Type 32 frigate mentioned by the Defence Secretary is an export version of Type 31. RN hopeful of additional a second batch beyond the 5 Type 31s on order with an aspiration for escort fleet of 24 Frigates & Destroyers"

Adds another layer of confusion - has someone placed an order? Are we going to see a second batch of T31 for RN?

An odd but logical explanation. When have export ships been given unique RN type numbers before?

However (to further confuse matters) I just listened to the defence secretary on the Today Programme (from 2:40:55 onwards):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ph3t

2:46:53: "we're going to commit to the next generation of frigate, the Type 32. We're going to commit to bringing online the Type 31 and Type 26 frigates in Scotland and destroyers. By committing to that, that will unlock investment in those yards..."

[Poiuytrewq]

The T32 decision seems odd if it is just the export version of the T31...effectivley the same vessel but better armed. If so, a T31 batch2 designation would have made more sense.

The fastest the T32's could realistically hit the water is in the late 2020's with hull 5 commissioning around the mid 2030's. Will RN really want such an old design still operating in the 2050's? I don't think so.

IMO the T32, at this point, is an unfunded aspiration to hit the 24 escort target and the cheapest way to get there at this stage looks to be a second batch of T31's. Rosyth can cope with 2 hulls concurrently so why not build 2 per year?....yep, because they are unfunded and the T32 is still an aspiration.

IMO if RN really want to order 5x T32's to follow the 5x T31's it time for Babcock, OMT and BMT to take the Iver Huitfeildt design to the next level and produce a British designed and built Frigate that RN can rely on for the next 30 years. Now that the T31's and T26's are in build, there is plenty of time to do this properly.

[Poiuytrewq]

By committing to that, that will unlock investment in those yards..."

Frigate factory on the Clyde?

I'm not sure BAE would commit to that even if HMG ordered the remaining 5 hulls in a single batch. There is currently no need for a Frigate factory unless the build schedule was to be quickened by ordering more hulls, either T26's or other designs.

Interesting.

[Tempest414]

16 billion extra across the armed forces My wish list would be for

12 extra F-35 bring it to 60 jets on order
3 extra P-8 MPA
Tempest demonstrator
3 x FSS
3 extra type 31 or a 9th Type 26
MHPC ( multi mission sloop) program started
NSM across the escort fleet
Warrior upgrade started
Challenger upgrade started

this would a good start

[dmereifield]

it may be a copy of whatever is pitched to the polish

I think you guessed it. T32 is an export version!

According to STRN twitter feed:
NavyLookout

"@NavyLookout

Can confirm the Type 32 frigate mentioned by the Defence Secretary is an export version of Type 31. RN hopeful of additional a second batch beyond the 5 Type 31s on order with an aspiration for escort fleet of 24 Frigates & Destroyers"

Adds another layer of confusion - has someone placed an order? Are we going to see a second batch of T31 for RN?

An odd but logical explanation. When have export ships been given unique RN type numbers before?

However (to further confuse matters) I just listened to the defence secretary on the Today Programme (from 2:40:55 onwards):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ph3t

2:46:53: "we're going to commit to the next generation of frigate, the Type 32. We're going to commit to bringing online the Type 31 and Type 26 frigates in Scotland and destroyers. By committing to that, that will unlock investment in those yards..."

Confusing!

[Poiuytrewq]

12 extra F-35 bring it to 60 jets on order
3 extra P-8 MPA
Tempest demonstrator
3 x FSS
3 extra type 31 or a 9th Type 26
MHPC ( multi mission sloop) program started
NSM across the escort fleet
Warrior upgrade started
Challenger upgrade started

Very nice but after plugging all the current funding gaps how much of this £16.5bn is actually going to be available for new programmes?

[inch]

Could it b that t32 a more heavily armed t31 for the rn ,a second batch order ?

[Tempest414]

12 extra F-35 bring it to 60 jets on order
3 extra P-8 MPA
Tempest demonstrator
3 x FSS
3 extra type 31 or a 9th Type 26
MHPC ( multi mission sloop) program started
NSM across the escort fleet
Warrior upgrade started
Challenger upgrade started

Very nice but after plugging all the current funding gaps how much of this £16.5bn is actually going to be available for new programmes?

These are the current funding gaps apart from MHPC