RFA Diligence

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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RichardIC
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RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... t_2016.pdf

Look, I'm not a Mr Angry and not a habitual complainer. I have previously only issued one FOI request in my life.

However I have just fired off the following:

Dear MOD Information Rights Team

RFA Diligence

I am writing to you under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to request the following information from the Ministry of Defence.

In a release of information dated December 10 2015 (copy attached) the Out of Service Date (OSD) of RFA Diligence was given to be 2020. In a sales summary dated August 2 2016 (copy attached) tenders were invited for the disposal of the vessel described as “former RFA Diligence R06”.

Could you please supply the following:
1. The date on which it was decided to dispose of RFA Diligence
2. The date on which RFA Diligence was removed from service
3. The reason that RFA Diligence was removed from service
4. The reason that no announcement was made of the removal from service of RFA Diligence
5. What alternative provision is being made for the repair and maintenance of ships and submarines operating away from their home ports in the UK provided by RFA Diligence as currently described on the MoD website
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organis ... -diligence
6. At what stage the consideration of options to deliver the capabilities formerly provided by RFA Diligence are currently at
7. When an announcement of the replacement of capabilities formerly provided by RFA Diligence will be made
8. Please also provide copies of all relevant correspondence (including emails) held by the Ministry of Defence regarding the disposal of RFA Diligence and the loss of the capabilities provided by RFA Diligence between December 10 2015 and August 2 2016

Please provide the information in the form of an email and hard copy.

If it is not possible to provide the information requested due to the information exceeding the cost of compliance limits identified in Section 12, please provide advice and assistance, under your Section 16 obligations, as to how I can refine my request to be included in the scope of the Act.
In any case, if you can identify ways that my request could be refined please provide further advice and assistance to indicate this.

I look forward to your response within 20 working days, as stipulated by the Act.

If you have any queries please don’t hesitate to contact me via email or phone and I will be happy to clarify what I am asking for, my details are outlined below.

Best wishes,

bobp
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by bobp »

Interesting I know the ship was fairly old but appeared to have just completed a refit in 2015. The photos of her seem to show her as being in a fairly decent condition.

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RichardIC
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

I've only just noticed that removal from service is listed as May 2015 - she completed a refit in March 2015 - but in December 2015 OSD was given in response to an FOI request as 2020.

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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by Gabriele »

This whole thing is a new pinnacle of insanity.

The March 2015 refit was probably actually pretty routine maintenance, i can't find anything about a major refit (which happened for sure in 2012, instead). But still...
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RichardIC
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

And thanks for alerting us to this insanity with your Tweet.

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Engaging Strategy
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by Engaging Strategy »

It's not that they tried to pay off and old ship a few years early, that the RFA probably can't crew anymore, with no likely replacement that really grinds my gears. It's that they tried to sneak her out of service without anyone noticing. Speaks volumes about the MoD's approach to transparency doesn't it? :x
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by arfah »

..............
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

@RichardIC

Thanks for sharing. A bit shocking to know. Maybe reflecting the "bad" situation of RFA.
I had a impression "Bays" become more active than ever, this year. (sorry have no statistics). Maybe related?

This also mean, "Any vessel" with no clear replacement program "can" disbanded in silence...

So, what about the future of RFA Argus ...?

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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by bobp »

Some say the new MARS tankers are stuck in South Korea because of crew shortages.

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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by Ron5 »

You'd think a temporary crew shortage could be dealt with by just tying up Diligence at the nearest dock rather than scrapping her.

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Re: RFA Diligence

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abc123
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by abc123 »

Engaging Strategy wrote:It's not that they tried to pay off and old ship a few years early, that the RFA probably can't crew anymore, with no likely replacement that really grinds my gears. It's that they tried to sneak her out of service without anyone noticing. Speaks volumes about the MoD's approach to transparency doesn't it? :x

Well, the sorry state of the RN ( and the whole UK AF ) isn't really something to be proud of or for advertising. ;)
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Engaging Strategy
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by Engaging Strategy »

abc123 wrote:Well, the sorry state of the RN ( and the whole UK AF ) isn't really something to be proud of or for advertising. ;)
The thing is that many people would probably have been quite understanding if the had MoD announced that Diligence was to be retired earlier than expected. It'seems pretty clear that the RFA's manning issues would make keeping her on until 2020 more or less an exercise in futility. From what I've seen she's been alongside since 2014 anyway. Keeping her alongside without anybody to crew her until 2020 would have been wasteful. I just don'the like the fact that, instead of being straight with the public, the MoD has snuck her out of service.

In other countries very hard questions would be asked about these issues and the defence ministry would have to produce serious and accurate documents for public consumption. Instead we have an unhealthy culture of secrecy in the MoD that (imo) allows the government to get away with significant "stealth cuts" like these with few questions asked.

With better oversight and openness towards the public we might even stand a better chance of generating the political pressure necessary to begin addressing the underlying issues.
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by bobp »

Janes has got round to the Diligence Story

http://www.janes.com/article/62912/uk-l ... ired-early

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RichardIC
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

MoD have missed their target date for replying to my FOI by two days already... possibly doing a spot of redacting.

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RichardIC
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

Now had a response from MoD FOI to say that because Q8 would take too long and cost too much (which I knew really) they're not going to any of the questions.

I've processed FOIs and that's not I'd have done it.

I have now resubmitted without old Q8 (but with a new Q8&9).... but the 20-working day clock has started ticking once more.

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RichardIC
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

Warships: Repairs and Maintenance
Mrs Flick Drummond: [45203]
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what plans his Department has to renew the capabilities provided by the former RFA Diligence for repair and maintenance of Royal Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels.

Harriett Baldwin:
The Forward Repair Ship, RFA DILIGENCE, is one part of a system providing support facilities to deployed ships and submarines. This support is regularly supplemented by commercial arrangements and international agreements and, when bespoke afloat capabilities are required, these are contracted on the open commercial market. We continue to consider all our capability requirements depending on the operational task.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

RichardIC wrote:support is regularly supplemented by commercial arrangements and international agreements and, when bespoke afloat capabilities are required, these are contracted on the open commercial market.
I read this as friendly basing, and
"and, when" at the end of the bolded is judged as unlikely.

So, a shift from afloat to nearby bases? East of Suez that would make it Oman, Bahrain, Singapore (DG has negligible facilities).
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shark bait
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by shark bait »

seem that way, not a bad plan.

I guess DG is diego garcia? in which case it has taken american carriers and subs in the past, its just in the middle of nowhere.
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GibMariner
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by GibMariner »

An unsurprising non-answer. With enhanced facilities in Bahrain and potentially Duqm in Oman (or other Omani ports outside the Straits of Hormuz) plus the Bay in the Gulf, perhaps Diligence going without a direct/identical replacement isn't the worst decision ever - other than the way they went about it. Seems like a system that's already been in place for a while anyway, just being improved.

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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by Gabriele »

Behold the full glory of this fuck-up:
[HL1595] Asked by Lord West of Spithead To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the cost of the refit to RFA Diligence in 2015. [HL1596]
Earl Howe: Refits of RFA DILIGENCE were carried out from June 2012 to February 2013, and from September 2014 to February 2015, costing £17.6 million and £11 million respectively. The timings of the refits were driven by factors including the mandatory requirements to renew safety and environmental certification and the need to address equipment obsolescence issues.

Asked by Lord West of Spithead To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether RFA Diligence has been fully manned since her refit in 2015. [HL1597]
Earl Howe: Since the refit that completed in February 2015, RFA DILIGENCE has not been fully manned by Royal Fleet Auxiliary personnel. In addition, personnel supplied by contractors ensure that the safety and integrity of the ship is maintained until she goes out of service in December 2016.

Asked by Lord West of Spithead To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the response by Navy Command Headquarters to a member of the public on 12 February, what new studies in the Ministry of Defence have superseded the statement made in that response that the operational capabilities of both Diligence, as the operational maintenance and repair ship, and Argus, as the primary casualty receiving facility with aviation training capability, are "invaluable to the support of the Royal Navy". [HL1662]
Earl Howe: It was stated in the letter to which the noble Lord refers that Navy Command was actively considering the out of service dates for both RFA DILIGENCE and RFA ARGUS, as well as the replacement capability. As a result of those considerations, and taking into account DILIGENCE's age and increasing obsolescence, it was concluded that retaining her in service would no longer represent good value for money to the taxpayer, and the decision was taken to retire her early. This decision does not detract from the invaluable service that DILIGENCE has provided for over 30 years.
http://qnadailyreport.blob.core.windows ... -09-14.pdf


"We have provided more ships"
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Gabriele wrote: Since the refit that completed in February 2015, RFA DILIGENCE has not been fully manned by Royal Fleet Auxiliary personnel. In addition, personnel supplied by contractors ensure that the safety and integrity of the ship is maintained until she goes out of service in December 2016.
Two years??? What went wrong... or were the likely needs reassessed ( a genuine story; these do happen)?
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by Gabriele »

This might or might not be the explanation to that weird timeframe: http://www.transvac-systems.co.uk/singl ... -Diligence
The new system will interface the existing 11 tank arrangement (total capacity 2,378.70 m3) which is to be upgraded to enable the vessel to operate beyond the initially planned 2014 OSD by meeting the IMO D2 Guidelines.
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RichardIC
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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RichardIC »

The MoD have now answered my FOI - after two months. None of it is a surprise as they've now had time to get their excuses lined up. But, for the record, here it is:


Annex A
2016-08591
Dated 7 October 2016
Q1. The date on which it was decided to dispose of RFA Diligence?
A1. The decision was taken by the Royal Navy in June 2016.

Q2. The date on which RFA Diligence was removed from service?
A2. RFA DILIGENCE will remain in service until December 2016:
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 06/HL1597/


Q3. The reason that RFA Diligence was removed from service?
A3. The decision to remove RFA DILIGENCE from service was taken after consideration
of her age and increasing obsolescence, and ensuring value for money for the taxpayer.

Q4. The reason in December 2015 the OSD of RFA Diligence was given as 2020 if the
vessel had already ceased operational service by that date?
A4. At the time of the FOI release in December 2015 RFA DILIGENCE was still in
service, with a planned out of service date of 2020.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 84506/2015
-10463_FOI_Request.pdf


Q5. The reason that no announcement was made of the removal from service of RFA
Diligence?
A5. RFA DILIGENCE remains in service, however, on 4 August 2016 the Disposal
Services Authority advertised a ‘Notice of the potential sale of the former RFA Diligence for
future use’
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... epair-ship


Q6. What alternative provision is being made for the repair and maintenance of ships and
submarines operating away from their home ports in the UK provided by RFA Diligence as
currently described on the MoD website?
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organis ... -diligence
A6. The Forward Repair Ship is one component of a system providing support facilities to
deployed ships and submarines. This support is regularly supplemented by commercial
arrangements and international agreements for resources and facilities either not available
within MOD or more effectively provided by third parties. When bespoke afloat capabilities
are required, these are contracted on the open commercial market. This support solution is
not dependent upon DILIGENCE and has proven effective.
We continue to consider all our capability requirements, depending on the operational task.


Q7. At what stage are the consideration of options to deliver the capabilities formerly
provided by RFA Diligence?
A7. http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -06/45203/

Q8. When an announcement of the replacement of capabilities formerly provided by RFA
Diligence will be made?
A8. We continue to consider all our capability requirements, depending on the
operational task.


Q9. The cost of the refit on RFA Diligence in March 2015 and the nature of the work
carried out?
A9. http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 06/HL1596/

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Re: RFA Diligence

Post by RetroSicotte »

None of the links they have provided work. Something odd going on?

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