Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (1998-2018) (ex RN)

[marktigger]

I would agree we should have bought 2 Rotterdam LPD instead of Albion and Bulwark. Something like the Karel Doorman to replace Argus would be ideal with PCRS facilities in lieu of Stores. maybe the basis of the Mars Solids fleet to?

[marktigger]

should we go for spannish , french or American proven design ? or let BaE get more money reinventing the wheel?

[S M H]

the HMAS Adelaide would be a good L.H.D. replacement for the L.P.Ds. and Ocean given B.A.E. has been embedded in construction and commissioning. The modification to U.K. kit and habitation standards would be an issue. The replacement of the gas turbine to Trent would be advisable commonalty with fleet. One extra benefit would be the flight deck ramp(as removing it was not done by Australia) giving an austere F35 deck in amphibious assault if down to one carrier (Refits) The cost would be less than a B.A.E. new design.

[SKB]

HMS Ocean won't be replaced with a similar new ship. HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince Of Wales will just absorb HMS Ocean's aircraft, officers, crew and Royal Marines into theirs. One QE class ship has the capacity of three Invincibles, or two Invincibles and an Ocean.

[marktigger]

will they be able to absorb her lcvp's

[shark bait]

will they be able to absorb her lcvp's

they could quite easily be lowered off the deck or from one of the lifts if really needed. However its an old fashioned technology and 4 less wont be missed.

[marktigger]

it may be old technology but useful capability and you can never be short of ways to move troops on operations. Bit more stealthy than helicopters to.

[Tiny Toy]

it may be old technology but useful capability and you can never be short of ways to move troops on operations. Bit more stealthy than helicopters to.

Indeed. Stupid to kill an amphibious assault capability when it's one of the things we're actually good at.

[SKB]

There are some very large boat 'cut-out' holes along the hull sides of the QEC's. Not the lift spaces, but specific boat area spaces. Maybe an LCVP or two could be housed in them? Plus, the carriers also have a boat pontoon built onto the stern.

[marktigger]

would we risk a Carrier close inshore? Hermes and invincible were joked to have been awarded the Burma star for how far they stayed out of the way in the falklands

[shark bait]

There are some very large boat 'cut-out' holes along the hull sides of the QEC's. Not the lift spaces, but specific boat area spaces. Maybe an LCVP or two could be housed in them? Plus, the carriers also have a boat pontoon built onto the stern.

The carrier would sit too far away for LCVP to be useful in any way.

[marktigger]

can't the Bay class carry some?

[SKB]

can't the Bay class carry some?

Yes, they do. http://ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=83

[Tiny Toy]

Think Defence posted some very sensible observations on the subject of amphibious assault capability here.

[GibMariner]

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... gship-role

HMS Ocean, the nation’s very high readiness helicopter carrier, will shortly assume the duties of Fleet Flagship

This was announced a while ago, the Royal Navy seems to be very slow to release these "news" stories.

I hope that this is more of a prestige thing of a flattop looking like a more impressive flagship and isn't the harbinger of bad news for the LPDs before the SDSR.

Separately HMS Ocean recently completed fitting new communications and IT systems which now allows the ship to host a staff, headed by a Rear Admiral, commanding UK and NATO Task Groups.

As well as the ship’s role as the Royal Navy’s Flagship, the headquarters staff in Ocean will be the Maritime Component Commander of the NATO Response Force (NRF) in 2016.

[SKB]

There's absolutely no way HMS Ocean will be decommisioned before a QEC is commissioned. They wouldn't be that stupid. Would they? (!)

[GibMariner]

There's absolutely no way HMS Ocean will be decommisioned before a QEC is commissioned. They wouldn't be that stupid. Would they? (!)

No, the current plan is for Ocean to decommission in 2018. If they plan on making Ocean the flagship until that date, at least until Queen Elizabeth is in service, her future until then should be safe. I don't think Cameron could get away with scrapping another flagship after the Ark Royal fiasco.

What I meant is that my worry is that now that the spotlight will be on Ocean so to speak, Bulwark and Albion could be deemed "extra" and scrapped... stupid I know as they're very different ships, each with their own unique capabilities (which no other vessels in the RN or RFA could provide).. but I wouldn't put it above Westminster

[SKB]

Bulwark is active now, Albion is planned to return to service in 2016. Bulwark will then probably go into refit or reserve. If a big ship were to be lost in the SDSR, I would imagine it would be Bulwark. Ocean is too big an asset to lose.

[GibMariner]

Bulwark is active now, Albion is planned to return to service in 2016. Bulwark will then probably go into refit or reserve. If a big ship were to be lost in the SDSR, I would imagine it would be Bulwark. Ocean is too big an asset to lose.

Precisely my fears. The plan for Bulwark at the moment would probably be the same as Albion when she was put into "extended readiness" before a refit and rotated with Albion again. Unless there is a sudden reversal and both are kept in service.

You're probably right that if one of them is at risk, it would be Bulwark... I don't think it would be politically viable to either end Albion's refit or to retire her immediately after its completion.

[S M H]

I would expect the government to remove one of the bays before losing an L.P;D. But with the crew requirements for the second carrier 20.18 Oceans out of service date will be timed to cover the second carriers manning. unless they start mothballing vessels again which I doubt.

[R686]

I would expect the government to remove one of the bays before losing an L.P;D.

That's the second time in a couple of weeks I heard that another Bay might go, certantly the RAN would be interested but seeing how they had so many takers for the last sale I think they might do something diffrent to wring more $$ out of it if they do it.

Also their is no official source on it just rumours.

[marktigger]

The RFA needs the manpower a present with the Tide class comming along so a Bay going would seam logical. Ocean took over as flag ship. But its interesting how jittery we all are as ships going into prolonged readiness/refit!

[GibMariner]

It's depressing that we're even discussing the (increasingly real) possibility of losing another Bay. Especially as they've being called on to fulfil more roles.

We never should have even sold Largs Bay to Australia. If anything DFID should have acquired it and funded it with their increased budget as a 'humanitarian aid' ship, given a fancy acronym and everything, which could still be called on by the RN in a pinch.

[marktigger]

We never should have even sold Largs Bay to Australia. If anything DFID should have acquired it and funded it with their increased budget as a 'humanitarian aid' ship, given a fancy acronym and everything, which could still be called on by the RN in a pinch.

Very imaginative certainly well above the creative thinking of the Civil service! you could also use that argument to get 2 C17's for the RAF.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Ocean's ship crew number is 285. QE is 679.

Illustrious had 650, but where it has gone? I suppose 285 went to Ocean, while the remaining 365 was absorbed in the fleet. Even so, I still hear there is a shortage of crew in RN.

old: mistaken,...sorry. "As a replacement, Ocean will provide all of her crew, but still you need additional 345. In addition, there will be POW coming, so the initial crew of 150 will also be needed there. In this case, you need 500."......

new: Since now QE has a "crew" of 150 (from Navy News), she needs additional 530. As a replacement, Ocean will provide all of her crew, but still you need additional 245. In addition, there will be POW coming, so the initial crew of 150 will also be needed there. In this case, you need 400. Where are you going to get it from?

In this respect, I am afraid the Albions (crew 350) is of much danger than Bays (core crew 70 RFA). OR, more likely, you may lose up to 3 T23s, providing 555 crews in total. 400 may go to QE, and the other 155 to fill all of the 3 "additional" OPVs (River B.2s) even with 1 extra crew team, possibly. If the remaining 365 of Illustrious is still there, the main problem is only on the POW crewing (but actually I can find no human resources to get for POW, thus is shall be in reserve... ).

All these ideas is just my "guess".

So, do anybody know something about the manning issue from Ocean to QE and PoW?