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Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (1998-2018) (ex RN)

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Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (1998-2018) (ex RN)

Postby SKB » 02 May 2015, 17:41

Image
^ HMS Ocean (L12)

Introduction
HMS Ocean was an amphibious assault ship, the Royal Navy's sole Landing Platform Helicopter and the fleet flagship of the Royal Navy. She was designed to support amphibious landing operations and to support the staff of Commander UK Amphibious Force and Commander UK Landing Force. She was constructed in the mid-1990s by Kvaerner Govan on the River Clyde and fitted out by VSEL at Barrow-in-Furness prior to trials and subsequent acceptance in service. She was commissioned in September 1998 at her home port HMNB Devonport, Plymouth. On 27th March 2008, HMS Ocean was decommissioned at HMNB Devonportm Plymouth, in a ceremony attended by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II.

Background
An invitation to tender for a new helicopter carrier was issued in February 1992. In February 1993 The Times reported that the carrier faced cancellation due to budgetary constraints. However, at approximately the same time, British forces were engaged in operations in the Balkans, which saw the Royal Fleet Auxiliary's aviation training ship RFA Argus pressed into service as an Landing Platform Helicopter (LPH). Argus proved totally unsuitable in terms of accommodation and facilities needed for a large Embarked Military Force (EMF), which emphasised the need for a purpose built platform.

On 29 March 1993, the defence procurement minister announced that development of the new LPH was proceeding. Two shipbuilders competed for the contract – Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Ltd (VSEL) and Swan Hunter. On 11 May 1993, the government announced that VSEL had won the contract. The build was to commercial standards, reducing costs significantly and leading to a construction spend of £154 million (£280 million in 2015), comparable to that of a Type 23 frigate. VSEL, a warship manufacturer, sub-contracted the build phase to the commercial Kværner yard in Govan, Glasgow.

The fact that VSEL's bid was £71 million lower than Swan Hunter's was the source of political controversy and led to a National Audit Office investigation to determine whether the competition was fair. The report, published on 29 July 1993, stated that, although VSEL did subsidise its bid, the MoD was right to award the contract to VSEL because the subsidy was much smaller than the difference between the two bids; VSEL's bid was £139.5 million compared to Swan Hunter's £210.6 million. The Times also suggested that the subsidy was as little as £10 million. In anticipation of the report, the Financial Times described the different philosophies adopted by the two bidders; while Swan Hunter viewed the ships as entirely military, "VSEL thought the design was basically a merchant ship with military hardware bolted on." VSEL's decision to sub-contract the build phase took advantage of lower overheads at a civilian yard as well as efficiency drives by its parent, Kværner.

Launched on 11 October 1995, she was subsequently named at Barrow by Her Majesty the Queen on 20 February 1998, prior to delivery to Devonport. In her sea trial, she managed to reach a top speed of 20.6 knots (38.2 km/h; 23.7 mph); however, her usual top speed is 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph).

Role
Ocean was designed to provide the amphibious assault capabilities last offered by Albion and Bulwark whilst in the Commando role. She can deploy an Embarked Military Force (EMF) of a Royal Marines Commando Group from 3 Commando Brigade supported by aviation and landing craft assets. The ship's company includes 9 Assault Squadron (9 ASRM) from 1 Assault Group Royal Marines whose primary role is as an Amphibious Assault Squadron. Secondary tasks include boarding parties, beach reconnaissance and providing amphibious knowledge to the ships Command. Besides these roles they have responsibilities within the ship which include fire fighting, watch keeping and security. 9 ASRM is divided into a HQ unit, Landing Craft Troop, Signals detachment, Vehicle Deck Party and Assault Supply Team.

HMS Ocean is also capable of limited anti-submarine warfare activities, supporting afloat training and acting as a base facility for other embarked forces including counter-terrorism units.

The air group of up to six Sea King HC4 medium-lift helicopters and six Lynx AH7 light-lift/anti-tank helicopters are provided by the Commando Helicopter Force, four-six Apache AH1 operated by the Army Air Corps and helicopters of the Royal Air Force, including the Chinook. Prior to their retirement, Ocean could transport up to 15 fixed wing Harrier aircraft of Joint Force Harrier in the ferry role, but was unable to operate as a fixed wing aircraft carrier due to her lack of the 'ski jump' that is needed to launch a fully loaded Harrier.

For the 2012 London Olympics, she carried an air arm of eight Army Air Corps and Fleet Air Arm Super Lynx helicopters, four from each service, to deploy special forces and conduct other missions in relation to her security role.

Four Landing Craft Vehicle and Personnel (LCVPs) are permanently embarked and manned by 9 Assault Squadron Royal Marines.

Operational history
Just weeks after being commissioned, Ocean was undertaking the warm water element of her first-of-class trials, when she was deployed on short notice to the coasts of Honduras and Nicaragua to provide humanitarian assistance in the aftermath of Hurricane Mitch. In early 1999, Ocean was scheduled to take part in an exercise in the Atlantic, but was diverted to the Mediterranean in readiness for possible deployment to Kosovo.

During 2000, Ocean supported Operation Palliser in Sierra Leone, joining Illustrious in aiding the suppression of rebel activity with her own EMF and providing support facilities for the Spearhead battalion ashore.

On 17 February 2002, a unit of Royal Marines from Ocean accidentally landed on the San Felipe beach in the Spanish town of La Linea instead of Gibraltar, causing a minor diplomatic incident as various media outlets labelled the mistake as an "invasion".

Ocean was part of a large Royal Navy task force deployed for Operation Telic, the UK contribution to the 2003 Iraq War, for which she was awarded a new battle honour "Al Faw 2003". In the helicopter assault role she was accompanied by Ark Royal.

In the summer of 2006, she was deployed as part of the task force involved in the Aurora exercises on the eastern seaboard of the United States.

In 2007, Ocean began her first long refit period. This was carried out by Devonport Management Limited at their Devonport Royal Dockyard facility and lasted around 12 months, during which period Ark Royal took over the LPH role. Ocean sailed from Plymouth on Wednesday 24 September 2008 to start sea trials, following this major period of maintenance and upgrading work. As part of that upgrade, a PyTEC pyrolysising waste recycling unit was fitted.

On 18 February 2009, Ocean sailed from Devonport as part of the Taurus 09 deployment under Commander UK Amphibious Task Group, Commodore Peter Hudson. She was joined on this deployment by the landing platform dock Bulwark, as Hudson's flagship, Type 23 Frigates Argyll and Somerset and four ships of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. This exercise was filmed for the second series of the Channel 5 documentary Warship. In June 2009, she took part in exercise Bersama Shield with Somerset and RFA Wave Ruler off the Malay Peninsula.

During the air travel disruption after the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption, Prime Minister Gordon Brown assigned Ocean and other units to rescue stranded travellers and army personnel across the English Channel in Operation Cunningham. In 2010, she was deployed on a multi-purpose deployment. This started with exercise Auriga on the eastern coast of the USA. She then moved to Brazil to conduct an exercise with the Brazilian marines, whilst there a defence co-operation agreement was signed on board. She then crossed the Atlantic heading for Nigeria to both participate in the Nigeria at 50 presidential fleet review and capacity building with the Nigerian navy as part of the African partnership programme. She returned to Devonport in November.

In April 2011, while under command of Captain Keith Blount, the ship was deployed as part of the RN's Response Force Task Group (RFTG) COUGAR 11 deployment. During this deployment, she took part in Exercise Cypriot Lion. In May 2011, she was detached from the COUGAR 11 deployment of the Response Force Task Group and sent with embarked Apaches to aid operations in Libya along with the attack helicopters aboard the French amphibious assault ship Tonnerre. This was the first time that Apache helicopters were sent directly into action from a Royal Navy ship. Her initial complement of three Apaches was bolstered by a fourth soon after, and later a fifth. The deployment included a large medical team, a sign of the ship's flexibility.

On 4 May 2012, she moored at Greenwich to prepare for her role of providing logistics support, accommodation and a helicopter landing site during the London 2012 Olympic Games. From 24 to 28 May 2012, she visited Sunderland, her affiliated port, and made other port calls before returning to London on 13 July. After Olympic duty, Ocean returned to her home port of HMNB Devonport for a scheduled period of maintenance.

The LPH role was provided by HMS Illustrious until 2014. On 22 July 2014, HMS Ocean took over the helicopter carrier role again, after her 15-month, £65 million refit, replacing HMS Illustrious, which then returned to her home port Portsmouth for the last time, being decommissioned on 28 August 2014. As part of the Response Force Task Group COUGAR 14 deployment, Ocean participated in exercises off Albania and France.

In April 2015 Ocean took part in Exercise Joint Warrior 15-1 around the coast of Scotland, with Wildcat helicopters landing on her for the first time. She then stopped again in Sunderland where the ship's company exercised their right to the freedom of the city, with more than 300 officers and ratings parading through the city centre. Ocean became the Royal Navy Fleet Flagship in June 2015. In December 2015, she returned to port after Exercise COUGAR 15, an amphibious warfare exercise in the Mediterranean with the French Navy.

At the end of August 2017, Ocean left Devonport for her final deployment, scheduled to take over as Standing NATO Maritime Group 2 flagship in the Mediterranean. Before she could relieve HMS Duncan with SNMG2, Ocean was redeployed to assist in disaster relief efforts following Hurricane Irma in the Caribbean, and then the subsequent Hurricane Maria.

It was reported in 2017 that Brazil was interested in purchasing Ocean as a replacement for the NAe São Paulo (A12) which was withdrawn from service in 2017 following multiple mechanical failures. The Royal Navy released an asking price of £80.3 million ($105,800,871.00 USD), which the Brazilian Navy called "convenient". In November 2017, the Brazilian Ministry of Defense began formal negotiations for the acquisition of the ship. In December 2017, the Brazilian Navy confirmed the purchase of the ship for (GBP) £84.6 million, (equivalent to R$359.5M and USD $113.2M).

Brazilian defence officials confirmed the purchase, as well as officials from the UK MoD, as of 17 February 2018. On 27 March 2018, HMS Ocean was decommissioned at HMNB Devonport, Plymouth, in a ceremony attended by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. Following her decommissioning from Royal Navy service, she will undertake a period of maintenance in the United Kingdom and is expected to arrive in Rio de Janeiro by the end of 2018 with the intention of being commissioned and fully operational by 2020.


Ships Of Class
1. HMS Ocean (L12) Commissioned 1998. Decommissioned 27 March 2018. Fate: Sold to Brazilian navy.

Class and type: Landing Platform Helicopter
Displacement: 21,500 t (21,200 long tons; 23,700 short tons)
Length: 203.4 m (667 ft)
Beam: 35 m (115 ft)
Draught: 6.5 m (21 ft)
Propulsion: Two Crossley Pielstick V12 diesel engines, One Kamewa bow thruster (Currently removed)
Speed: 15 knots (28 km/h) cruise, 18 knots (33 km/h) max
Range: 8,000 miles
Boats and landing craft carried: 4 × LCVPs
Capacity: 40 vehicles
Troops: 830 Royal Marines
Crew: 285 + 180 FAA/RAF
Sensors and processing systems: Type 997 Artisan 3D Radar 1008, 2 x Radar 1007
Electronic warfare and decoys: UAT Electronic Support Measures
Armament: 4 × 30mm DS30M Mk2 guns, 3 × Phalanx CIWS, 4 x Miniguns, 8 × General purpose machine guns
Aircraft carried: Up-to 18 helicopters:
Westland Sea King
Westland Lynx
AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat
Merlin
Boeing Chinook
Westland Apache
Aviation facilities: Large flight deck, Hangar deck, Helicopter lifts, Vehicle deck


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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby SKB » 11 May 2015, 16:25

HMS Ocean introduction video


HMS Ocean educational video (13m:33s)

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Tiny Toy » 11 May 2015, 16:48

Ocean is a success story. If instead of throwing money at CVF we had built another Ocean and/or Albion class, we could have afforded to build all the Astutes and GCS and still have had plenty left over for ASW patrol and all the things that are going to be feeling the pinch. We don't need power projection, it's only got us into trouble every time we've tried it. We're good at amphibious assault, we should have specialised in that as part of a wider joint forces strategy. The fact that Ocean was built to commercial standards might shorten her projected operational lifespan, but things change quickly and this often necessitates a rebuild. Being able to build more often for less money is not a flaw.

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Happyslapper » 11 May 2015, 17:24

Tiny Toy wrote: We don't need power projection, it's only got us into trouble every time we've tried it.


Worked pretty damn well over the last couple of hundred years, so much so that we were able to build and sustain an empire it's back.

The actual employment of sea-based power projection continues to be a spectacular success. Having an unpopular war in the case of 2003 does not diminish the toolset it offers HMG (everything from a sledgehammer in the case of that campaign, to something far more subtle in the case of West Africa and things such as Auriga deployments).
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Tiny Toy » 11 May 2015, 17:38

Happyslapper wrote:The actual employment of sea-based power projection continues to be a spectacular success. Having an unpopular war in the case of 2003 does not diminish the toolset it offers HMG (everything from a sledgehammer in the case of that campaign, to something far more subtle in the case of West Africa and things such as Auriga deployments).


To be clear I'm only talking about hard power projection capability that cannot be used for any other purpose, not AURIGA or the sterling work that 820 NAS did in Sierra Leone (which only corroborates my opinion that we should specialise in amphibious operations). Somewhere along the line the joint chiefs got high on shock and awe and decided that this was worth betting the whole budget on to the detriment of everything else, when in fact the same could have been accomplished via more nuanced means at lower cost and not left us with these huge capability gaps.

Ocean and other amphibious support platforms are many times more flexible than carriers which can only really do one job and that hugely expensively. Plus Ocean carries British built aircraft that support British jobs instead of supporting the US economy with procurement of flaky F-35s.

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Happyslapper » 11 May 2015, 18:03

Ok I get what you mean now. I definitely don't agree though.
You just can't deliver a broad capability, especially one as complex as amphib ops, without the sort of capability that a proper flat-top offers.
Ocean was definitely good value for money, though I doubt we'd ever get a replacement for a remotely similar price. We live in an age where a destoyer costs roughly half the price of a carrier anyway!
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 11 May 2015, 20:04

I cant agree either.
Ocean has done well, but what can you do with ocean that you cant to with one of the carriers?
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby WhitestElephant » 11 May 2015, 20:17

Difficult to agree with what you are saying Tiny Toy.

Surely carrier strike and and our amphibious capabilities go hand in hand when it comes to power projection? And please explain why you feel it necessary to damn carrier strike because of two recent land campaigns?

Ocean will be redundant anyway once the new [super]carriers come into service.
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Dave » 11 May 2015, 22:11

Tiny Toy wrote:
Plus Ocean carries British built aircraft that support British jobs instead of supporting the US economy with procurement of flaky F-35s.


The UK will do pretty well out of the F35. At current levels, 15% of the F35 is British built components.

The following British companies were recognised at today’s event:
BAE Systems designed and manufactures the aft fuselage, horizontal tails and vertical tails for the F-35
Cobham designed and manufactures the refueling probe for the F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) and the F-35C carrier variant (CV)
EDM produces components for the weapons load trainer system and the ejection seat maintenance trainer for the F-35
GE Aviation produces the electrical power management system, the remote input/output unit, standby flight display, and the backshop battery charger for the F-35
Honeywell developed and produces the F-35’s power thermal management system. Additionally, Honeywell is a provider of the F-35’s life support system
Martin-Baker designed and manufactures the F-35 ejection seat
MBDA produces the Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM), which can be installed within the weapons bay and on external wing stations of the aircraft.
MBDA is also working with Lockheed Martin and the UK Ministry of Defence to integrate the Meteor missile into a future upgrade of the UK’s F-35 fleet
RE Thompson produces casings for batteries onboard the F-35
Rolls-Royce provides the lift system for the F-35B STOVL, which consists of the lift fan, the three-bearing swivel module, the roll post modules and the lift fan vane box. These components are essential for STOVL operations
Selex ES Ltd designed and builds the lasers that are the key component for the Electro Optical Targeting System
Survitec Group provides all pilot flight equipment for every F-35 pilot around the world
Ultra Electronics produces suspension release equipment for the F-35
UTC Aerospace Systems produces the weapons bay door drive system, utilities actuation and uplock components for the F-35

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/uk/news ... onomy.html

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Tiny Toy » 12 May 2015, 08:26

shark bait wrote:Ocean has done well, but what can you do with ocean that you cant to with one of the carriers?


Retain £2.8 billion to spend on other necessary things that will otherwise be cut.

WhitestElephant wrote:Surely carrier strike and and our amphibious capabilities go hand in hand when it comes to power projection?


Not at all. Carrier strike is a blunt instrument. Amphibious assault can be carefully tailored to specific requirements.

WhitestElephant wrote:And please explain why you feel it necessary to damn carrier strike because of two recent land campaigns?


I'm not. I'm damning it because it's too expensive for what it does and other capabilities are suffering for it.

WhitestElephant wrote:Ocean will be redundant anyway once the new [super]carriers come into service.


Ocean only has 5 years' lifetime left anyway. But what I'm saying is that it's a great shame we decided to spend the money on carriers when we could have spent a lot less on LPH and LPD that could be used more flexibly, and have a great deal left over to keep the last Astute, stop GCS numbers being cut, fill the hole that is maritime patrol, upgrade ancient personal kit, even buy in some additional SSKs. I am not alone in thinking this.

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Tony Williams » 12 May 2015, 09:03

Tiny Toy wrote:
shark bait wrote:Ocean has done well, but what can you do with ocean that you cant to with one of the carriers?


Retain £2.8 billion to spend on other necessary things that will otherwise be cut.


Not to mention the cost of the F-35s which will operate from them....

I must admit that I am dubious about the value for money of our ginormous new carriers and their F-35s. The sheer size of the carriers can only be justified if they are stuffed full of combat planes and poised for high-intensity warfare, as the USN CVNs are. For all other purposes, I think that the Spanish Juan Carlos 1 multi-purpose ships (as bought by Australia - Canberra class) are far more versatile and look like being much better value: now if we had half-a-dozen of these instead of the carriers, LPHs and LPDs we could still operate small numbers of F-35s from them if we needed to.

Image

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ship_Juan_Carlos_I_(L61) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra-class_landing_helicopter_dock for details.

Note that the contract for two vessels was 3 billion Australian dollars, or around £1.5 billion (£750 million apiece).

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby arfah » 12 May 2015, 10:36

............
-<>-<>-<>-

Why this forum is pish!

1: Ineffective moderators
2: Too many fantasists ruining dedicated equipment threads with notions of what gun/mortar/artillery/missiles the equipment should have because it makes their panties moist.

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 May 2015, 10:44

If you get it right, never miss an opportunity to gold plate it (aus.com news site):

""That hasn’t stopped the Abbott Government examining the $13 billion idea to turn our newest troop-carrying warships into aircraft carriers.
But a review of the proposal to buy F-35B “jump jets” for our the Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) ships has determined that the benefit of such an idea is marginal at best.
These vessels - named Canberra and Adelaide - are actually designed to carry tanks and men and set them ashore without the help of a safe harbour.
Turning them into something completely different - a floating airfield full of the stuff needed to operate and maintain combat aircraft - is a complex and expensive idea. And one that might not be worth the very high cost."

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 12 May 2015, 10:52

They do cost more, but they are also vastly more capable then almost any aircraft carrier or LHD out there. Everything boils down to a cost VS capability Pareto front, the uk can still afford to splash out on world class kit, but not in every area like we are perhaps use to. The real decisions we need to have is what areas do we want to retain the highest world beating facilities, and where do we need to take a step back to the cheaper domain.

I think it's pretty clear we've decided we want a world class carrier, and are prepared to spend to get it. We have seen other areas shrink, possibly because of this desicion, but that's fine by me, its reallocating resources to what's in fashion at the time.

It also gives the uk a huge status symbol which I don't think can be underestimated.
SSBN, super carriers and stealth jets, that shows you have some serious muscle.
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Gabriele » 12 May 2015, 14:25

The only thing that would have really benefited the amphibious capability and Royal Navy as a whole, would have been to have no separate LPH and LPD programmes, and instead build 2 good LHDs. Separate LPDs and LPH make sense only if you have the money to build two of each, and good. And you also have to send out a LPH and a LPD, side by side, always, or miss important pieces of the puzzle. Ocean has quite great aviation capability, but very little vehicle capability. The Albions have... meh. Not too terribly much of anything, let's be honest. I've never been particularly impressed by their vehicle or troop capacity, and the lack of hangar is just plain dumb.
When only one LPH was built, that was the coronation of a not really successful idea for the renewal of amphibious capabilities. So much so, that if it only was financially feasible, i would be all too happy to withdrawn Ocean, Albion and Bulwark early in exchange for those two "surplus" Mistrals on the other side of the channel.
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby SKB » 12 May 2015, 16:21

France has a couple of brand-new 'spare' Ocean replacements going at the moment... lol. There are rumours of France threatening to sink them both as artificial reefs! Maybe the MoD could could obtain them both to replace Ocean, Bulwark and Albion and refit them to UK specs. ?

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Old RN » 12 May 2015, 16:37

The real cost of operations is manpower. Given the incredibly low staffing level of the CVF will they cost more to run than HMS Ocean?

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Gabriele » 12 May 2015, 16:38

SKB wrote:France has a couple of brand-new 'spare' Ocean replacements going at the moment... lol. There are rumours of France sinking them as reefs. Maybe the MoD could could obtain them both to replace Ocean, Bulwark and Albion ?!


Sink them...? Brand new...? Can't see that happening, ever. If the sale does not proceed, France will have to pay back money to Russia, and the state will probably (surely?) need to cover the cost for the shipyard, too, because i don't think they can take the loss without a massive shock.
The UK could probably purchase both, but not by the cheap. If there was a spare billion pounds, it may be doable... and even then, on their arrival in the UK, they would have to be extensively reworked over to make them "british" vessels, including fitting communications, computer, weapon and data systems. This would require further money.

It could be done, in technical terms. Financiarily, i don't think there are chances.
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby RetroSicotte » 12 May 2015, 17:30

It amazes me that they remain so steadfast to the "budget limit"

Surely, you'd think some idiot up top could go "Y'know, if we make provision for this in excess of the budget because it's a freaking massive thing that could completely redefine our surface fleet for comparitively cheap and future proof it for decades then we'd be in a good spot and save billions down the line."

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby WhitestElephant » 12 May 2015, 17:39

RetroSicotte wrote:It amazes me that they remain so steadfast to the "budget limit"

Surely, you'd think some idiot up top could go "Y'know, if we make provision for this in excess of the budget because it's a freaking massive thing that could completely redefine our surface fleet for comparitively cheap and future proof it for decades then we'd be in a good spot and save billions down the line."


Politicians are so fixated on the short-term, and the savings to be made now, rather than look to the longer-term at what is often a logical no brainier and best for everyone. That is to say, they'd rather save a few quid now, even if it meant spending a fortune in the future - because for the short time they hold office their books will look rosy.

The Mistrals would be ideal to replace the Albions, huge increase in capability and savings to be made in through life costs and personnel. It also does the right thing by NATO and bails out the French.
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Tiny Toy » 12 May 2015, 18:19

shark bait wrote:It also gives the uk a huge status symbol which I don't think can be underestimated.


Alternatively they will see a middle-aged man with an expensive fast car and will still smirk at the fact that he lives with his mum because he couldn't afford his own flat with the car repayments.

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby WhitestElephant » 12 May 2015, 18:38

Tiny Toy wrote:
shark bait wrote:It also gives the uk a huge status symbol which I don't think can be underestimated.


Alternatively they will see a middle-aged man with an expensive fast car and will still smirk at the fact that he lives with his mum because he couldn't afford his own flat with the car repayments.


Your analogy is absolute nonsense. You seriously believe the United Kingdom cannot afford aircraft carriers? The 5th global economy? :roll:
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby Tiny Toy » 12 May 2015, 19:39

WhitestElephant wrote:You seriously believe the United Kingdom cannot afford aircraft carriers?


Well, it seems that the United Kingdom cannot afford both the aircraft carriers and a full complement of aircraft to fly from them. Or all of the Astutes. Or possibly all of the Type 26s. Or maritime patrol aircraft. Or all the other things that have been or will be cut.

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 12 May 2015, 20:26

Tiny Toy wrote:
Alternatively they will see a middle-aged man with an expensive fast car and will still smirk at the fact that he lives with his mum because he couldn't afford his own flat with the car repayments.


Funny analogy but they can defiantly be afforded. They have already been paid for, and the operational costs are peanuts compared to the government's funds. Its just down to the politicians to assign the resources in the right places.

Gabriele wrote:The Albions have... meh. Not too terribly much of anything, let's be honest.


I agree, I would be happy to give those the chop to get both carriers fully operational, bay class can pick up some slack.
Indeed in my fantasy fleet they are gone and replaced by the solid support ship (a kind of Karel Doorman), built in Korea, ran by the RFA. Nice and cheap!

As for ocean, its had a tough life for a cheap vessel so its time for it to go. With the carriers coming on-line it wont need replacing.
@LandSharkUK


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