UK Defence Forum

Tempest414 wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Looking at these image, I really think MHC must adopt bulky hull. Large deck space, more flexibility to future MCM drones. I think we must omit "high speed" requirement, which will significantly degrade the effectiveness as MHC ship, by requiring more slender hull. I think, 18 knot is max. Even 16 knots is doable.

So lets say the UK went for a 100 meter Venari with a wildcat capable hangar and Max speed of 18 knots it could still be very a useful patrol ship

Exactly

Tempest414 wrote:

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Looking at these image, I really think MHC must adopt bulky hull. Large deck space, more flexibility to future MCM drones. I think we must omit "high speed" requirement, which will significantly degrade the effectiveness as MHC ship, by requiring more slender hull. I think, 18 knot is max. Even 16 knots is doable.

So lets say the UK went for a 100 meter Venari with a wildcat capable hangar and Max speed of 18 knots it could still be very a useful patrol ship

The speed requirement is up for debate, I would like to see 21knts but the crucial part is the hanger.

A Venari 95 with a 57mm/76mm, Phalanx and embarked Wildcat would be a very very useful platform in the maritime security role. The ability to embark CB90's, LCVP's and LCAC's is just the icing on the cake.

Poiuytrewq wrote:The speed requirement is up for debate, I would like to see 21knts but the crucial part is the hanger.

A Venari 95 with a 57mm/76mm, Phalanx and embarked Wildcat would be a very very useful platform in the maritime security role. The ability to embark CB90's, LCVP's and LCAC's is just the icing on the cake.

MHC is primarily a mine counter measure asset. It must be evaluated as such. Patrol is primarily T31 and River B2s role. For example, I am not sure BOTH ciws and 57/76mm are needed. Either might be better, in view of less crew and more deployment. May be, FFBNW CIWS?

donald_of_tokyo wrote:

Poiuytrewq wrote:The speed requirement is up for debate, I would like to see 21knts but the crucial part is the hanger.

A Venari 95 with a 57mm/76mm, Phalanx and embarked Wildcat would be a very very useful platform in the maritime security role. The ability to embark CB90's, LCVP's and LCAC's is just the icing on the cake.

MHC is primarily a mine counter measure asset. It must be evaluated as such. Patrol is primarily T31 and River B2s role. For example, I am not sure BOTH ciws and 57/76mm are needed. Either might be better, in view of less crew and more deployment. May be, FFBNW CIWS?

Apologies Donald, my fault for not being clear (again). The CIWS should be FFBNW along with the Wildcat. Some would argue that for a lot of patrol tasks even the 57mm/76mm is unnecessary but I believe a 57mm/76mm and 2x 30mm's is a basic requirement for patrolling outside the EEZ. The Phalanx and Wildcat can be added if necessary.

My comment above was based on a Black Sea deployment in the current climate. A Venari 95 with a 57mm/76mm, 2x 30mm's, Phalanx and a Wildcat would be a decent platform to send into such a situation. Sending a pair of Venari 95's with maybe a single Wildcat between them would be even better, especially if one was in a Combat MCMV configuration with 12 CAMM and Artisan.

We have to be realistic, these sort of standoff confrontations are going to become more and more common until one side backs down, and there is little sign of that. The days of trotting the globe with a 20mm or 30mm are coming to an end and RN/MOD/HMG need to realise that before a vessel gets into a situation it can't handle.

The Venari will never be an offensive asset but it should have the ability to upgrade its defensive capabilities if required. The Combat MCMV configuration is just an even more capable defensive package that can operate in conflict zones without additional escorts. Some argue that it isn't necessary because a T23/T26/T31 will always be on hand to escort the MCMV's. In that case what is going to escort Echo in the Black Sea? The answer is probably nothing hence the need for the new class of MHC vessels to be able to quickly upgrade their defensive cability if required.

The Enterprise is patrolling near the Neutral Zone....

....and has arrived back at Spacedock.

It would be unwise of the ship's company to go ashore wearing red shirts in this strange, hostile alien location....

Enterprise's shields have been raised.

And left the next day.

(Forces TV) 15th August 2019

Following 22 months away from her home port HMS Echo returned to Devonport today. The Royal Navy survey ship has been working with NATO and the EU in the Mediterranean and Black Sea as well as charting the region’s waterways.

Royal Navy to deploy HMS Enterprise to Beirut

"Defence Secretary said: "At the request of the Lebanese government I have today authorised the sending of HMS Enterprise to help survey the Port of Beirut, assessing the damage and supporting the Lebanese government and people rebuild this vital piece of national infrastructure."

Rather fortunately she's currently in Cyprus so very close by. I'd expect her hydrographic capabilities will be of great use in trying to get Beirut harbour functioning again.

Anyone know how many containers she can embark?

(Forces TV) 10th August 2020

Royal Navy ship HMS Enterprise has arrived in Beirut to assist following an explosion which destroyed the port and buildings across the city. The survey vessel will carry out work to establish the extent of the damage, following last Tuesday's incident which killed hundreds and injured thousands more. She has also brought with her tents, cots and field kitchen systems.

Enterprise returns home

(NavyLookout) 15th October 2020

Welcome home HMS Enterprise. Back in Plymouth Sound today after 15 months away on a global deployment covering 53,000 nautical miles.

looks like she needs a lick of grey paint.

She has been worked very hard so probably need more than a coat of paint.

What's often overlooked is that should other MCM sqdrns (not a formal term?) be activated, these two ships can take on the command role and have lots of relevant kit
- hopefully both will stay in line as replacements are far off

"HMS Echo reduced to low readiness as Royal Navy considers options for replacement capability"

Clearly showing how tight the current RN resources are.

https://www.navylookout.com/hms-echo-re ... apability/

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 13:01 "HMS Echo reduced to low readiness as Royal Navy considers options for replacement capability"

Clearly showing how tight the current RN resources are.

https://www.navylookout.com/hms-echo-re ... apability/

Being very generous, could it be suggested that with the decline of the Sandowns and Hunts that there's a reduced requirement for an MCM mothership?

Otherwise seems an odd decision considering the current state of the world and then importance of keeping sea lanes open.

Jensy wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 00:49

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 13:01 "HMS Echo reduced to low readiness as Royal Navy considers options for replacement capability"

Clearly showing how tight the current RN resources are.

https://www.navylookout.com/hms-echo-re ... apability/

Being very generous, could it be suggested that with the decline of the Sandowns and Hunts that there's a reduced requirement for an MCM mothership?

Otherwise seems an odd decision considering the current state of the world and then importance of keeping sea lanes open.

Not sure, but I think it simply means lack of resource. HMS Echo going into reserve is bad thing, but as it is coincident with all 5 River B2 being operational/deployed, it is just "plus" and "minus", not only negative move.

On MCM mother ship: I understand Sandowns will go away without replacement, while Hunts will be replaced with MCM motherships. This could be (at least partly) justified because MCM USV kits are stated to be operatable from land for a hundred km or so, which means ALL coastal operations and MANY IF the choke-point operations can be covered from land. If this move can provide crew for HMS Echo, then it is not a negative move, either.

HMS Scott has just extended her life. HMS Echo went into extended readiness status, an her parts will be used to support HMS Enterprise.

May be, not chance coincidence.

Stopping Scott from going out just made Echo into extended readiness status?





https://www.navylookout.com/hms-echo-re ... apability/

More RN robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I am glad that Scott back in active service- I imagine it will be invaluable in surveying and protecting the undersea cables, especially as that is supposedly a big part of our strategy in the High North.

Just a shame that its instead of the other survey work that Echo carry out.

RN crew retention and recruitment needs to be increased in priority with extra funding.

Utter disgrace

Yes total disgrace...this Government is destroying our armed forces.

No crew and the need to crew Scott for deep sea operations make it inevitable.

jimthelad wrote: ↑01 Jul 2022, 22:50 No crew and the need to crew Scott for deep sea operations make it inevitable.

The sad thing is that we would probably need these ships more than ever. I know they are n't frontline vessels but I would have thought surveying and monitoring deep sea in North Atlantic and High North is crucial with increasing tensions with Russia, specifically the submersible threat to undersea cables.