Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

[Qwerty]

article regarding the state of readiness/refit

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/progre ... -frigates/

[SKB]

(Warship TV) 1 Feb 2019

Having earlier completed her escort duties of HMS Queen Elizabeth in the United States during the Westlant 18 exercise in December 2018, Type 23 'Duke' class frigate HMS Monmouth F235 returns home to Devonport Naval Base at Devil's Point on 1st February 2019.]

[Timmymagic]

I think Type 26 will be getting Stingray launchers from this news....8 systems receiving upgrade...

[ArmChairCivvy]

I think Type 26 will be getting Stingray launchers from this news....8 systems receiving upgrade...

But, but... they were meant to be totally useless ?

[xav]

You really think these will be ported over to the T26 ?

The MTLS are getting a "refresh" i.e. they won't be new builds...

A colleague from Jane's told me the ready only 8x T23 are getting the upgrade is because there are 8 ASW variants of the T23 (which also have the longest lives remaining). They have sonar 2087 LFAS and usualy embark Merlin. The other 5 have no Sonar 2087 and are used for general purpose duties.

[ArmChairCivvy]

A colleague from Jane's told me the ready only 8x T23 are getting the upgrade is because there are 8 ASW variants of the T23 (which also have the longest lives remaining).

Exactly, keeping them relevant (as they will be in short supply towards the end).

Italy has a similar dilemma as when the older ships are being decommissioned, only 4 of the 10 FREMMs are ASW configured (with MILAS). The gap was going to be filled by PPA, but
"

Now, with a new Navy chief, Valter Girardelli, at the helm, plans are under consideration to turn the last three PPAs into 3,000-ton patrol ships. Planners are also reevaluating the need for an anti-submarine capability, noting that eight ASW ships are now being retired, while there are only four FREMM frigates with an ASW configuration.

A second option is to turn the last three PPAs into 4,500-ton ASW ships. By making them smaller, four vessels would be purchased with the same funding as the three larger PPA vessels"

Voi la! 4+4 would make for the magic 8 number in ASW ships. But why I put this thought here is that PPAs were designed to carry the heavyweight torpedo Black Shark which is about 6 meters long (the length changes according to its configuration, whether exercise or service), its diameter is about 533 mm, it is very noiseless and can work in self-guidance mode during the last step of the mission.
- In its most innovative version it is equipped with the new Lithium-Polymers battery

Which way will the smaller version go? With MILAS (Asroc-like) or Black Shark? Or both? Not likely with LW Torps, though
- and how do these questions apply/ get answered in the RN?

[Caribbean]

But, but... they were meant to be totally useless

Not completely useless, no. But a long way down the "useful" list for surface platforms, particularly in open water, with longer engagement ranges. However, not much chance of retro-fitting fitting ASROC onto a T23, so ...........

I wouldn't be surprised if LWTs found their way back onto surface ships in future, but indirectly, as part of a USV-based ASW package, where the speed of the USV negates the issue of the LWTs shorter range).

[Pongoglo]

I think Type 26 will be getting Stingray launchers from this news....8 systems receiving upgrade...

But, but... they were meant to be totally useless ?

Quite clearly no one told the RN ?

[Timmymagic]

A colleague from Jane's told me the ready only 8x T23 are getting the upgrade is because there are 8 ASW variants of the T23 (which also have the longest lives remaining). They have sonar 2087 LFAS and usualy embark Merlin. The other 5 have no Sonar 2087 and are used for general purpose duties.

Absolutely thats the main reason, it was the dates regarding the refresh that was interesting, with the last being completed in 2024. Admittedly that will be one of the last T23's to be retired, but it does open up the possibility.....

It does rather go against the received wisdom that shipborne LWT's are useless...those 8 T23's with 2087 tails are supposed to be dependent on their Merlin HM.2, but here the RN is refurbing its torpedo tubes....if we believed everyone online the more likely outcome would have been for the RN to quietly retire the capability rather than try and extract extra life out of it.

My interest in the LWT mounts is as much focused on future anti-torpedo hard kill solutions as it is on retaining Stingray. I'd be in favour of sticking a couple of Spearfish tubes onboard as well (given the reduction in SSN numbers we have to have some going spare). At the very least it would give the sub skipper something else to think of...

There are a lot of good reasons why LWT's onboard ships should be retained, including one glaring one that no-one seems to have thought about or mention......it's not just Submarines and torpedo's that need to be killed in the future.....we're going to be hunting USV's as well....

[ArmChairCivvy]

.if we believed everyone online

... the operative words?

[Caribbean]

including one glaring one that no-one seems to have thought about or mention...........we're going to be hunting USV's as well....

See my last post - our USVs will be hunting their USVs.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Beautiful photo, I think.

[SKB]

[Poiuytrewq]

[ArmChairCivvy]

Was it this same thing
"leak in shaft seals discovered"
that impacted QE during the trials?

[Poiuytrewq]

Was it this same thing
"leak in shaft seals discovered"
that impacted QE during the trials?

It sold a lot of newspapers at the time.....

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/hms-qu ... ia-target/

[SKB]

Some photos of HMS Montrose in Tokyo. (from ship's Twitter account)

[SKB]

Some videos too...

Arrival

(kinokopack) 8 March 2019


(KAMSAR_932D) 8 March 2019

Public Opening

(Kawasaki Yasu) 9 March 2019


(Volvic channel) 10 March 2019

[Poiuytrewq]

[Lord Jim]

According the Forces News, HMS Montrose is to be permanently stationed in Bahrain as part of the forward deployment programme. Also interesting is the fact that 100+ crew from HMS Monmouth are being sent out to the ship as part of a trial programme to exchange crews between ships in order to maintain the forward presence. Is HMS Montrose one of the GP T-23s? If not, could this mean that if things work out we will see a T-26 forward deployed rather than a T-31e as many have assumed?

[Poiuytrewq]

Is HMS Montrose one of the GP T-23s?

Yes.

[Lord Jim]

Well that makes sense then. So it is a pretty safe bet that Bahrain will be the forward base for one of the T-31e when they finally arrive.

[ArmChairCivvy]

be the forward base for one of the T-31e when they finally arrive

It does have 'wire' whereas Duqm is more of a facility... depends on which one goes up 'in flames' first: Hormuz (Str of. as there is also the city) or Red Sea

[Lord Jim]

Given what is deployed on the eastern side of the straits, whatever we station there would do better to have their main guns replaced by additional CIWS and SAMs.

[donald_of_tokyo]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-mon ... eployment/

HMS Montrose is to swap her crew with HMS Monmouth?

But, Montrose is after LIFEX, with new SAM and CMS, but Monmouth is yet to be FILEXed? How the crew can train themselves. Am I missing something?