Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

[SKB]

(Royal Navy)
It's not often a band gets to play under the sea but today The Band of the Royal Yeomanry paid a visit to their affiliate warship HMS St Albans in HMNB Portsmouth - 10 metres below sea level!

[The Armchair Soldier]

[Aethulwulf]

Google Maps satellite images of HMNB Portsmouth and Devonport have both recently been updated. In both locations you can now see images of Type 23 ships (Argyll? & Westminster?) in the late stage of refits with the Sea Ceptor missile system fitted.

[abc123]

They might as well fire some Harpoon, she will be out of service next year anyway...

[The Armchair Soldier]

HMS Argyl conducts the first firing of Sea Ceptor at sea:

[xav]

Video: Royal Navy' Successful First Firings of MBDA Sea Ceptor Missile

The first firings of the new Sea Ceptor air defence system have been successfully conducted in a major milestone for the Royal Navy, Defence Minister Harriett Baldwin announced today. The Minister visited defence company MBDA’s site in Filton, near Bristol, meeting with local graduates, apprentices and other employees working on the Sea Ceptor system.

The new air missile defence system can intercept and destroy enemy missiles travelling at supersonic speeds and will form part of the protection for the nation’s new aircraft carriers. The first firings were conducted from Type 23 frigate HMS Argyll whilst off the coast of Scotland.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ssile.html

[Timmymagic]

Finally a Sea Ceptor test firing. It said 'Test 3' in the video as well.

Hopefully all is going well.

[Ron5]

So protects a 13 mile (20 km) circle with the ship at the center. Interesting.

I wonder if that is a Type 23 statement or one that can be applied to the Type 26. The Type 23 Artisan has about a 30km radar horizon for an incoming sea skimmer. The Type 26 should be able to see 7 or 8 km further due to its increased height.

[chinook88]

Does it correspond to different tests?

[ArmChairCivvy]

protects a 13 mile (20 km) circle with the ship at the center

The rumour has it that ER doubles that (to 40 km). The nature of these things are that only when export effort goes into overdrive then more exact figures start to be thrown around.

[SKB]

[Ron5]

protects a 13 mile (20 km) circle with the ship at the center

The rumour has it that ER doubles that (to 40 km). The nature of these things are that only when export effort goes into overdrive then more exact figures start to be thrown around.

That's disappointing. I thought this might be a statement about its ability to handle crossing targets but if it's just a mere expression of range ...

[RetroSicotte]

Bear in mind that CAMM has already been declared as 25+ by MBDA.

So the Royal Navy/MoD saying the equivilent of "20" is very much just an understatement, as usual.

[ArmChairCivvy]

ability to handle crossing targets

It is Mach 3 and most "incoming" do much less, so it's not too bad within that radius

Would be nice to "clock" that launch vid sequence, bearing in mind that the first mile is spent accelerating... so how much of the 20 something range would be left at various incoming angles and approach speeds

[indeid]

ability to handle crossing targets

It is Mach 3 and most "incoming" do much less, so it's not too bad within that radius

Would be nice to "clock" that launch vid sequence, bearing in mind that the first mile is spent accelerating... so how much of the 20 something range would be left at various incoming angles and approach speeds

I'm hoping that sort of Pk data is well hidden away!!

It's a good point though, with so many variables in missile performance it's nearly impossible to compare systems from open source.

Launch range against a fast, non manovering inbound target will be very different to a target turning defensive.

Nice to see it progressing, next launch from the back of a truck?

[SKB]

^ HMS Argyll arrives in London's docklands for the 2017 DSEI event
https://twitter.com/DSEI_event

Normal speed:

[Ron5]

Handsome class. I wonder if she still has the soot stains from the CAMM launches

[ArmChairCivvy]

the soot stains from the CAMM launches

CO2? Is it not... before the rocket ignition

[Ron5]

the soot stains from the CAMM launches

CO2? Is it not... before the rocket ignition

Dunno what it is, all I've seen is box under piston labelled gas generator. But all explosives are gas generators aren't they?

PS I was making a joke. They'll be pumping CAMM for all it's worth. And they should. Sounds like a great system.

[ArmChairCivvy]

pumping CAMM for all it's worth. And they should. Sounds like a great system.

It is ... a pity that in the world of war (kit) there are no patents; now anyone can put effective SaMs on much smaller hulls... more importantly, on small-ish hulls without dominating the rest of the lay-out, because the "small" ones normally have some other primary function

[shark bait]

That CAMM video is great, that cold launch and rotate looks fantastic. It's a very neat system they've developed and already doing well on the export market, I'm sure more will follow when it makes it into service.

A 20km interception range sounds fully reasonable. At most a sea skimmer is going to be detected at 40km, so once response time and flight time have been accounted for the incoming missile will very likely be within 20km, so I don't see a massive advantage with CAMM-ER.

[shark bait]

CO2? Is it not... before the rocket ignition

It's not CO2 as in a compressed CO2 bottle, the pressure for that would be enormous. It's a lot like the explosive charge found in air bags, to generate high pressure gas very quickly. A quick google tells me airbags generate Nitrogen gas, so I guess the CAMM launch generates a hot Nitrogen mix when launching.

[ArmChairCivvy]

put effective SaMs on much smaller hulls... more importantly, on small-ish hulls without dominating the rest of the lay-out,

This is how it works
"
reach the required turnover altitude and velocity within the specified time constraint (approximately 1 second from missile first movement).

The missile will incorporate a lateral thruster system, containing 8 thrusters in linked pairs to provide pitch,yaw and roll control, which will
be initiated on exit from the launch tube. The thruster unit will be powered by an independent, annular, on-board gas supply and actuated
via linkages to the fin servo system."

So, there is an overhead as the gas is applied in a two stage process (out first, then turn). Unclear to me how the initial turn angle is communicated, probably by wire and the "black boxes" on the ship superstructure only kick in for mid-course help, so that the radar cone can capture the target and do the final homing. As we have discussed earlier, the method does not reserve radar capacity as in the older "fire-control channel" solutions. Unfortunately the spec does not divulge which gas/ gas mix is used. But it is quite remarkable as the missile goes from standstill to 55 g's and back to 2-3 (the moment the rocket motor ignites) within ONE second.
- a benefit overlooked is that soft launch in this way can be done (for an unchanged missile size) with 30% shorter VLS
- how many decks does the "biggie" version of MK41 - that everyone hankers after - penetrate?

[Ron5]

You're mixing up two things. The propellant & system to eject the missile is quite independent from the mechanism to flip.

Your description is also backwards, you mean to say the missile starts at 55g then slows to 2-3g before the flip.

The missile is "instructed" which way (direction & angle) to fire before launch i.e. "head out that way at this angle and expect further directions via DL"

[ArmChairCivvy]

So, there is an overhead as the gas is applied in a two stage process (out first, then turn).

Admittedly bad wording, trying to keep it short:
"Out" with a gas source external to the missile
"Flip" with the linked pairs of thrusters and internal gas source; that's the overhead (in the missile). NOT having to manage the hot gas efflux , however, saves 30 % in the silo length, meaning that deck intrusion is less, meaning that either on a big vessel more choices to place the missiles are opened up or, on smaller vessels, they can take such weapons 9 instead of something less effective, like an auto-cannon)l

Your description is also backwards, you mean to say the missile starts at 55g then slows to 2-3g before the flip.

I don't think it is backwards at all:
- standstill at zero milliseconds (ms)
- 55 g at 35 ms
- the handover point at 100 ms (1 second) and the g's have gone (momentarily) down to 2-3