Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[SKB]

Can we get back to Type 31 news discussion please, thank you.

[donald_of_tokyo]

As T31 is real, just continue discussion on escort thread, not fantasy thread.
This is NEWS thread, not for discussion, but for sharing news.

[The Armchair Soldier]

As T31 is real, just continue discussion on escort thread, not fantasy thread.
This is NEWS thread, not for discussion, but for sharing news.

This.

This topic is for Type 31 news and related discussion.
Use the escorts topic for general discussion.
Use the fantasy topic for fantasy/speculative discussions.

It's really not difficult. Back on topic now please. PM me if you've any concerns.

[The Armchair Soldier]

It's really not difficult. Back on topic now please. PM me if you've any concerns.

Re-quoting this since some people clearly can't read. Posts have been deleted and warnings have been issued. Anyone else ignoring this warning will receive a forum ban. Back on topic.

[dmereifield]

Some movement in the T31 programme:

https://www.janes.com/article/83485/uk- ... um=twitter

[ArmChairCivvy]

movement in the T31 programme:

Does the grapevine inform us if any of the bidders can just copy their docs submitted in the previous round?
"calling on industry for expressions of interest to receive the pre-qualification questionnaire (PQQ) for a new acquisition attempt for the Royal Navy’s Type 31e frigate requirement.

The programme, to acquire five new vessels to replace the incumbent Type 23 general-purpose frigates, expects the first ship to be delivered in 2023 and the rest by 2028."
- another half a year gone, but ambition (as for the drumbeat) remains

[Tempest414]

it is pushing it now in real terms a contract will need to be singed by the 1st quarter of 2021 for the first ship to be delivered in the 4th quarter of 2023

[dmereifield]

movement in the T31 programme:

Does the grapevine inform us if any of the bidders can just copy their docs submitted in the previous round?
"calling on industry for expressions of interest to receive the pre-qualification questionnaire (PQQ) for a new acquisition attempt for the Royal Navy’s Type 31e frigate requirement.

The programme, to acquire five new vessels to replace the incumbent Type 23 general-purpose frigates, expects the first ship to be delivered in 2023 and the rest by 2028."
- another half a year gone, but ambition (as for the drumbeat) remains

No grapevine that I have access to....

[ArmChairCivvy]

I would not even call it a grapevine... the one that said: no qualifying-in "bids" in the round before
- they are not bids, of course, but responses to combinations that could fit the given budget

What will be built/ contracted, I take it, is a template platform that will have lots of batches (not necessarily starting with n:o 6) to follow

[Ron5]

If I remember correctly, the next set of contracts were supposed to be for a 6 months design effort only so that the competitors could come back early next year with appropriately matured designs and costings that they could use to credibly bid for the big 1.25 billion contract to build & support.

Given this announcement, I wonder if the design phase has been quietly dropped with the idea they can move directly to the manufacturing bid stage. I suspect Cammell Laird didn't need the design phase given that their Leander design & build plan is probably mature enough already.

[Ron5]

I would not even call it a grapevine... the one that said: no qualifying-in "bids" in the round before
- they are not bids, of course, but responses to combinations that could fit the given budget

What will be built/ contracted, I take it, is a template platform that will have lots of batches (not necessarily starting with n:o 6) to follow

They didn't say "no" qualifying bids, they said "insufficient". And the bids were for the design phase.

[Aethulwulf]

A bit more from behind the Jane's paywall...

...The competitive design phase (CDP) of the programme is now expected to run from 21 Dec 2018 until 22 July 2019. After this, a single design and build contract will be awarded to the winner.

The release of the contract notice calls for industry to express their interest by 12 October, and the PQQ will be used to select suitable bidders for the competitive design phase (CDP) of the programme.

A CDP invitation to negotiate (ITN) will be issued to industry parties successful at the PQQ stage. ITNs to bid for the design and build (D&B) stage of the competition will ultimately be issued to those awarded CDP contracts. A single D&B contract will then be awarded to the winning bid for the build of the five frigates.

The CDP contracts are expected to be awarded on 21 December 2018 at the same time as the D&B ITNs, and will complete on 22 July 2019.

COMMENT

Despite having to suspend the CDP process in July due to a lack of suitable offers, the government is still stressing that the amount of UK content must be high, while also minimising the burden of government-funded assets and the cost of ownership to the MoD.

It adds that it should maximise the “UK prosperity footprint” to increase export potential, without compromising on cost and time.

Despite a requirement for the frigate be built in the UK, it is unlikely that the MoD will rule out international input, especially given the lack of interest it received in response to the first attempt at the CDP process.

“Suppliers should only respond if they are (themselves or as part of a consortium with other suppliers) in a position to undertake the full T31e programme and meet its full requirement including building the T31e in a UK shipyard,” the new contract notice explained.

[ArmChairCivvy]

COMMENT

Despite having to suspend the CDP process in July due to a lack of suitable offers

Insufficient in number, or just not suitable... or both! Verbal acrobatics- ooh,I like it (but clarity would do nicely, thank you)

Despite a requirement for the frigate be built in the UK, it is unlikely that the MoD will rule out international input, especially given the lack of interest it received in response to the first attempt at the CDP process.

- call that Thales, then? Are they really going to torpedo my great idea of one military (perhaps, but not necessarily, nationalised) fitting-out yard... as of today operated by BAES

[Ron5]

Thanks Aethelwolf for the update.

Sounds like the program is 4-6 months behind schedule. Not bad given that it's only been running for a year!

Hoping for non-UK bids is kinda like pissing in the wind, what successful foreign yard wants to help make the UK a competitor especially with the expected Brexit effects of a lower pound and lower UK business tax rates. Be rather suicidal I would have thought.

[Tempest414]

Despite a requirement for the frigate be built in the UK, it is unlikely that the MoD will rule out international input, especially given the lack of interest it received in response to the first attempt at the CDP process.

For me this is aimed at arrowhead 140 maybe doing away with fully owning the design and just going for building ships for export in UK yards

[ArmChairCivvy]

If normal biz rules apply, buying
[IP+ships]> ships only, in money terms

I seem to remember that there was a bit of a "stink" about the Fincantieri design to be built in British yards not having been considered, when the tankers were ordered
- may be there was the "IP box" to be ticked, even though none of the reporting mentioned it

[Poiuytrewq]

For me this is aimed at arrowhead 140 maybe doing away with fully owning the design and just going for building ships for export in UK yards

I'm not sure Arrowhead 140 is still a realistic proposition. I think it's very unlikely it can be built in the UK for £250m unless there is a high degree of creative accountancy. It's also disappeared completely from the Babcock website.

It will be interesting to see what design Babcock finally go with.

[Tempest414]

What I mean is dropping the need to own the design

[shark bait]

Arrowhead failed before they even considered the price, having hardly any UK content Babcock completely missed the mark.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Arrowhead failed

Which one; 120 brochure can be downloaded from the website https://www.babcockinternational.com/Ca ... owhead-120

[Poiuytrewq]

What I mean is dropping the need to own the design

That would make a massive difference and would open up a world of possibilities.

It's one thing to work with an unrealistic budget or very restrictive contract terms but to have both as red lines in the same programme doesn't bode well in my opinion.

Arrowhead failed before they even considered the price, having hardly any UK content Babcock completely missed the mark.

If Arrowhead 140 is now defunct, where next for Babcock?

It's hard to see Arrowhead 120 beating Leander as its a completely clean sheet design with all the associated risks attached.

[Repulse]

What worries me is that the message remains anyone but BAE - I understand the sentiment but if we are going to go ahead with this T31 nonsense, then a stretched Khareef with UK kit remains the best option. Better still buy 2 additional T26s and keep the B1 Rivers to be replaced by some useful MHPCs.

[ArmChairCivvy]

to have both as red lines in the same programme doesn't bode well in my opinion.

Well , we don't want yet another instance (Chequers won't pass my lips) where such an approach results in negotiating just with yourself - the other party(-ies) being disinterested.

[shark bait]

If Arrowhead 140 is now defunct, where next for Babcock?

Perhaps a package with some British content beyond the metal bashing?

[Tempest414]

I think what would help in terms of the type 31 program as a hole would be for the MOD to say type 31 will be fitted with new BAE CMS plus Artisan radars from type 23s for fleet commonality and logistics