Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[dmereifield]

I can't read beyond the paywall, but the Telegraph is reporting that Babcocks is going to be announced as preferred bidder

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... pbuilding/

[ArmChairCivvy]

fantasists and a chronic retweeter have ruined this forum

Say no more;
but I have to feel for the moderators, too. How much time can you put in, if the peer "review" is not working?
- I try not to be too rough ... perhaps that is a too gentlemanly act; but then we could soon be down to exchanging personal insults? no one would benefit from that, either

[Aethulwulf]

I can't read beyond the paywall, but the Telegraph is reporting that Babcocks is going to be announced as preferred bidder

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... pbuilding/

A consortium led by defence supplier Babcock is set to be named as the preferred bidder for a £1.3bn contract to build a new fleet of cut-price frigates for the Royal Navy.

The government is expected to announce the likely winner to construct for the £1.25bn deal for five “Type 31e” frigates in a major announcement at next month’s Defence & Security Equipment International show in London.

The Type 31e is a stripped-down warship, suitable for general duties but not equipped for intensive warfare, making it cheaper.

The “e” denotes exports, with the designs being intended to make them attractive to foreign buyers.

The concept was proposed as part of the 2017 National Shipbuilding Strategy review by industrialist Sir John Parker.

This aimed to support Britain’s warship industry by generating more demand, and also break BAE Systems’ virtual monopoly by spreading work to other shipyards.

The Type 31e contract has taken on a new urgency with questions about whether the Navy has enough ships. Existing operations have come under strain after warships were rushed to the Persian Gulf to escort merchant vessels amid escalating tensions with Iran.

Babcock joined forces with Thales, OMT, BMT and shipyards Harland & Wolff and Ferguson Marine to pitch its Arrowhead 140 design, going up against bids led by BAE and by Atlas Electronik UK.

It is not known if the consortium’s plan to assemble the vessels at Babcock’s Rosyth shipyard using “blocks” built by Harland and Ferguson remains intact, with Harland & Wolff having entered administration earlier this month, and Ferguson expected to be nationalised by the Scottish government after hitting financial difficulties.

Although a decision hasn’t been finalised, preferred bidder status is not final. One defence insider described Babcock as “by far the favourite”.

“BAE’s very good at building warships but there’s a feeling in Government that work needs to spread around to help the industry,” the source added.

Babcock and the Ministry of Defence declined to comment.

[bobp]

Maybe enough work to keep Harland and Wolf going for a few more years would be good for Anglo- Northern Irish relations at the moment.

[dmereifield]

I can't read beyond the paywall, but the Telegraph is reporting that Babcocks is going to be announced as preferred bidder

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... pbuilding/

A consortium led by defence supplier Babcock is set to be named as the preferred bidder for a £1.3bn contract to build a new fleet of cut-price frigates for the Royal Navy.

The government is expected to announce the likely winner to construct for the £1.25bn deal for five “Type 31e” frigates in a major announcement at next month’s Defence & Security Equipment International show in London.

The Type 31e is a stripped-down warship, suitable for general duties but not equipped for intensive warfare, making it cheaper.

The “e” denotes exports, with the designs being intended to make them attractive to foreign buyers.

The concept was proposed as part of the 2017 National Shipbuilding Strategy review by industrialist Sir John Parker.

This aimed to support Britain’s warship industry by generating more demand, and also break BAE Systems’ virtual monopoly by spreading work to other shipyards.

The Type 31e contract has taken on a new urgency with questions about whether the Navy has enough ships. Existing operations have come under strain after warships were rushed to the Persian Gulf to escort merchant vessels amid escalating tensions with Iran.

Babcock joined forces with Thales, OMT, BMT and shipyards Harland & Wolff and Ferguson Marine to pitch its Arrowhead 140 design, going up against bids led by BAE and by Atlas Electronik UK.

It is not known if the consortium’s plan to assemble the vessels at Babcock’s Rosyth shipyard using “blocks” built by Harland and Ferguson remains intact, with Harland & Wolff having entered administration earlier this month, and Ferguson expected to be nationalised by the Scottish government after hitting financial difficulties.

Although a decision hasn’t been finalised, preferred bidder status is not final. One defence insider described Babcock as “by far the favourite”.

“BAE’s very good at building warships but there’s a feeling in Government that work needs to spread around to help the industry,” the source added.

Babcock and the Ministry of Defence declined to comment.

Thanks. Would be very interested to see what they can afford to arm and fit it with given the tight budget and size of the platform. I had thought that the Leander was pretty much a dead cert

[Aethulwulf]

What this sounds like is an "unofficial" drop of a story, just prior to the final decision, to gauge the public/press reaction. Now just wait to see if the story gets picked up by other papers, bbc, etc and whether any MPs, union representatives or other interested parties kick up a fuss.

[Caribbean]

What this sounds like is an "unofficial" drop of a story, just prior to the final decision, to gauge the public/press reaction. Now just wait to see if the story gets picked up by other papers, bbc, etc and whether any MPs, union representatives or other interested parties kick up a fuss.

Good point. Though personally, I suspect that the only people briefing against this will be BAE. Everyone else will be looking at the possibility of rescuing H & W, which will be a positive for the incumbent Government

[dmereifield]

What this sounds like is an "unofficial" drop of a story, just prior to the final decision, to gauge the public/press reaction. Now just wait to see if the story gets picked up by other papers, bbc, etc and whether any MPs, union representatives or other interested parties kick up a fuss.

Good point. Though personally, I suspect that the only people briefing against this will be BAE. Everyone else will be looking at the possibility of rescuing H & W, which will be a positive for the incumbent Government

And the lion's share of the work going back jntk Scotland (presumably?) would help too

[Ron5]

Danish design, french radar, Dutch command system to be built at two bankrupt shipyards. Got Hammond's greasy fingerprints all over it. Nigel will have a field day.

Only in the UK ☺

[Repulse]

If Babcock get it then they should be forced to reopen Appledore as part of the deal. Can’t help but thinking that with negotiations just started for the 2nd T26 batch, this is a way of ratcheting up the pressure on BAE - which of course could spectacularly blow up in HMG’s face.

[abc123]

IMHO very bad and non-strategic decision. BAE-CL should get the job. The actual ship design is not so important. Keeping the industrial capabilities in England is.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Smacks of a rescue job. Still, if the story will hold water, in the wider fleet mix it is the best choice (with capacity to grow & mutate).
- now... about the capacity to build the 2 (?) FSSs?

[Repulse]

Any order / deal that excludes English yards would be a mistake. I also think the Arrowhead option would be a mistake also unless the government will see it through with more money - having a few non strategic yards in financial dire straits is manageable, spreading the spend and putting them all in jeopardy is not.

[abc123]

Well, it will be time to cry when Ukraine-scenario happens.
And again nobody will be responsible, nobody could forsee it, like Brexit, or T45 engines etc...
Nobody sane would put it's balls willingly into a squeeze, except for the HMG.

[RichardIC]

Jeez, this has flushed the English nationalists out.

[Poiuytrewq]

Maybe enough work to keep Harland and Wolf going for a few more years would be good for Anglo- Northern Irish relations at the moment.

Its hard to overestimate how important Harland & Wolff is to Northern Ireland, Belfast is practically built around it and those two yellow gantry cranes (Sampson and Goliath) dominate the skyline. If HMG is serious about investing in the regions of the UK as part of a distributed prosperity agenda then letting H&W go to wall certainly wouldn't be a great start for Northern Ireland.

I had thought that the Leander was pretty much a dead cert

It still could be. If HMG decides that it will fund a modest expansion of the fleet then it's highly likley extra OPV's will be part of the mix in which case 100m to 105m Rivers or Leanders would be a perfect fit.

the possibility of rescuing H & W, which will be a positive for the incumbent Government

The idea that the DUP would passively watch H&W go to the wall while the Scottish Government intervenes to safeguard the future of Ferguson is highly unlikely. It would be politically nonsensical.

french radar,

Do we really know that the NS100 has been chosen over Artisan yet?

BAE-CL should get the job.

Personally I think BAE have annoyed so many within RN and HMG during the T26 design phase that the default in the T31 competition has always been 'anyone but BAE'. Trying to reduce the costs of building warships in the UK is commendable but the T31 really should be an innovative British design.

- now... about the capacity to build the 2 (?) FSSs?

Personally I have always favoured a Cammell Laird and H&W partnership building the UK's RFA's and Amphibs. Working together these yards would have all the capacity the UK should ever need in the next 50 years. That capacity would include space for additional OPV's if HMG decides that's the way to go.

[Repulse]

Jeez, the has flushed the English nationalists out.

You may see that way, but seeing both BAE Portsmouth and Appledore close, with the loss of high skilled job, then political moves to prop up Scottish and NI shipbuilding then why not England?

[Tempest414]

Jeez, the has flushed the English nationalists out.

You may see that way, but seeing both BAE Portsmouth and Appledore close, with the loss of high skilled job, then political moves to prop up Scottish and NI shipbuilding then why not England?

Way off post now but it could be seen that HMG have propped up a English yard in Barrow and if the Union was strong the work could be well laid out with all SSBN/ SSN built in England all Escorts where built in Scotland and all other RN & RFA ship were Built at H&W and CL

[Jake1992]

Jeez, the has flushed the English nationalists out.

You may see that way, but seeing both BAE Portsmouth and Appledore close, with the loss of high skilled job, then political moves to prop up Scottish and NI shipbuilding then why not England?

Way off post now but it could be seen that HMG have propped up a English yard in Barrow and if the Union was strong the work could be well laid out with all SSBN/ SSN built in England all Escorts where built in Scotland and all other RN & RFA ship were Built at H&W and CL

I agree it’s way off topic but I don’t think it’s english nationalist but to me more of the whole purpose of this was to gain another escort builder out side of Scotland ( in England ) to off set any political risk of split of the union.

If the political situation was different then it would make sense to have specialised yards for different builds ( escorts 1 maybe 2, subs, small non combatants MHPC so on and large vessels amphibious RFA and the like ) but this isn’t the case.

[jedibeeftrix]

Strangely - given A140 is the larger hull with more capability growth - I think its a shame Leander didn't win.

£250m doesn't make a credible frigate, so i'd prefer the cheaper platform to become the MHPC baseline rather than pretend to be a warship.

A140 will distract from maximising the T26 fleet.

[Poiuytrewq]

Jeez, the has flushed the English nationalists out.

You may see that way, but seeing both BAE Portsmouth and Appledore close, with the loss of high skilled job, then political moves to prop up Scottish and NI shipbuilding then why not England?

Way off post now but it could be seen that HMG have propped up a English yard in Barrow and if the Union was strong the work could be well laid out with all SSBN/ SSN built in England all Escorts where built in Scotland and all other RN & RFA ship were Built at H&W and CL

Personally I will start worrying about the break up of the Union when Ireland or the EU agrees to stump up the annual £21bn deficit that the Scottish/NI economies currently endure. Add in a carving up of the UK's nation debt pro rata and the case for independence looks a little unattractive to say the least....

However if Scotland did vote to leave the Union I think current planning has got it about right. The SNP's claim that the Clyde has been betrayed is going to look ever more ridiculous as a second escort building facility will soon appear at Rosyth....a massive boost for the local economy. It's not on the Clyde but it's still Scotland!

CL and H&W can build the FSS's and possibly convert the FLSS's if they actually materialise. In addition H&W can build blocks for the T31's and CL can build any extra OPV's that may be needed down the line.

If Scotland leaves the Union all escort building moves to the south coast and if Northern Ireland leaves CL takes over the extra workshare.

Construction at Barrow continues unaffected.

It's a compromise but allowing for all the political considerations I think the balance is about right.

[serge750]

If there was a break up of the union ( hope not! ) it would take ages for all the details to be finalised so probably would not effect the 5 x T31 build ? isn't the last T31 slated for delivery around 2029?

[Jake1992]

If there was a break up of the union ( hope not! ) it would take ages for all the details to be finalised so probably would not effect the 5 x T31 build ? isn't the last T31 slated for delivery around 2029?

Ok so let run the thought train through, if Scotland get granted an second indiref at the start of next year ( a smart PM would grant only with a 5 year brexit seeing period ) it takes 6 months odd to get everything in place to allow and another month for the campaign and vote, so we see an independent vote by July 2020.

Do we think it’d take 9 years to finales the departure ? I can see maybe 5 years but not 9

[abc123]

Jeez, this has flushed the English nationalists out.

I would hardly call myself ( at least English ) nationalist, but that's just simple logical thinking. Let's face it, the genie is out of the bottle. 5 years ago, a few percents more and Scotland would be out. If the referendum is tomorrow, I'm pretty sure that Scotland and even the NI would be out. And one day, it will be 51% out. 2020 or 2025 or... I doubt that my kids will in school one day learn about the United Kingdom in current borders and with current constitutnt countries. Also, HMG obviously has no intestinal fortitude to tell the Scots that referendum is one-in-a-generation thing, so they can get the next one say after 2035. So, if things are like that, and they are- the only logical thinking is to prepare for such unfortunate, but non the less realistic case.
That means, strategic defence (industrial) facilities should be based in the only part of the country that will not separate- and that's England. And not only shipyard(s) but Faslane with nuclear deterrent support facilities, MPAs etc.
Simple as that.

That said, I personally prefer Arrowhead design, but there are things much more important than this or that half-arsed frigate design.

[Ron5]

Fergason (sp) went bankrupt because it was over a year late struggling to handle the technical difficulties building a couple of car ferries.

And it's going to build a frigate?

By the way, I couldn't find the newspaper story this morning.