Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[RichardIC]

Here’s some news. Cat Little, MoD’s Director General of Finance, has just told the Public Accounts Committee that there is now a specific budget set aside for the T31e.

Glad that’s been cleared up.

[benny14]

Maybe this has been posted or released elsewhere, but what is the requirement of the R.N for this ship in its fit out and capabilities?

Core is what the RN wants at a minimum. Adaptable is what the platform should be capable of for exports if funded properly.

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wp-cont ... ram-V4.pdf

[abc123]

According to Twitter there's supposed to be a model of the Leander there but I've not seen any pictures of it.

"According to BAE Systems, the Type 31e will be a highly capable multi-mission warship, designed to deliver the full range of warfare from complex combat operations to maritime security and humanitarian assistance"

"Using a flexible mission bay that can be reconfigured at short notice it can perform constabulary, disaster relief, maritime interdiction, counter-piracy and joint taskforce operations."

"At DIMDEX, Type 31e is shown fitted with a 76mm main gun, 12x VLS for Sea Ceptor, 8x Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Mk 41 VLS, 2x secondary artillery mounts and a Phalanx CIWS. Configuration is highly adaptable and depends on customer requirements."

"Type 31e basic specifications:
Displacement: 3,677 tonnes
Speed: 25+ knots
Range: in excess of 7500 nautical miles
Length: 117 meters
Beam: 14.6 meters
Crew: 98 (variable depending on requirements)
Accommodation: 138 berths"

Some good pictures from that article. Looks like it is from a slideshow.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -time.html

Won't be getting all that for £250m though will we?

Maybe some ( eventual ) export customer will, but not the RN. I seriously doubt that you will see that on Type 26 either.

[NickC]

DefenseNews reporting: Chirine Mouchantaf - Doha, Qatar [Dimdex 2018] & Andrew Chuter - London

"Up to four companies will be awarded competitive design-phase contracts a British Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said Mar 16"
"The Royal Navy’s Type 31 is to be fitted with the Advanced Radar Target Indication Situational Awareness and Navigation (ARTISAN) radar, Sea Ceptor anti-air missile, and an unidentified gun.
BAE reckons it is best to use the Bofors 57 mm gun. “It is our preferred choice,”said Joyce. “But that depends on how the requirement goes,”
For its part, Rolls Royce will be supplying the MT30 engine and a range of equipment including steering gear, rudders, propellers and mission bay handling systems for the BAE/Cammell Laird bid."

Very surprised there are four bidders and use of the MT30, believable ?

From <https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... or-export/>

[donald_of_tokyo]

The document goes T26 ad T31 mixed at the beginning, discussing about the British warship building industry. It then goes on to T31e. I "guess" the writer mixed it. But, just guess.

I'm not sure T31e's engine room can handle MT30. Maybe maybe not, but MT30 needs diesel (or smaller GT) along with, which is not easy I think.

[Caribbean]

I'm not sure T31e's engine room can handle MT30

Incheon class can handle them (114m x 14m @3200t heavy), so I would think that the T31 can as well. RR repackaged them for smaller ships in 2012

[Poiuytrewq]

The Daegu class with the MT30 has completed trails in excess of 30 knots. If the Leander could fit an MT30 comfortably and also within budget, it must be capable of well in excess of the 25 knots and keeping up with the carriers should be possible?

[donald_of_tokyo]

There are many smaller vessels with GT. But, because the Leander's aim is to design it cheap, I guess the engine room will have the same arrangement/size as those of Khareef. Then, if it can house MT30? is not clear, this is what I meant.

Of course if we allow drastic design change, anything can be possible.

[Tempest414]

As said Leander looks to be stretched Khareef however there is 18 meters being added across all decks and this may mean part of the redesign covers the engine room this could make seance as it would give more flexibility in engine type for export something the Arrowhead design has hinted at on the Babcocks site

[xav]

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -time.html

According to Twitter there's supposed to be a model of the Leander there but I've not seen any pictures of it.

BAE had a small model (3d printed I think) at DIMDEX... I've seen it from a distance... but then it was "gone"... when I asked about it, BAE said they didn't want to show it because it was rather crude and didn't reflect the latest design changes.

Anyways, expect a video on Type 31e from us... as part of our DIMDEX Day 3 coverage (will be published in the "Qatar" thread). Later in the week, a longer version of the video (dedicated to the Type 31e) will be published.

[donald_of_tokyo]

I think BAES and Camel Laired only knows the answer. If the drive-train is re-designed, then the cost increases and T31e's armament will be needed to be further cut. Which is better?

As Khareef's top speed is 25 knot, with longer hull Leander's top speed will increase, maybe 26 or 27 knots. (On the other hand, its drag in low speed will increase, and will be less fuel efficient at low speed).

"All diesel" or "CODOE" propulsion is becoming very popular among export markets, so I think not having GT in the engine room is not a big drawback. Of course, if the customer wants, BAES/CL can re-design it later.

[Aethulwulf]

Here is a link to Xav's DIMDEX day 3 report, including an interview with BAE about their Leander design.

https://youtu.be/H2H_iYr203Y

I suspect the real target audience for BAE at DIMDEX is UK MOD. Promotion of the exportability of the Leander may help BAE win the Type 31competition.

If the Leander loses the T31 competition, it's dead in the water. No one else will want to buy a rejected design.

[andrew98]

Dream.....
BMT Venator 120 (brief mention in a video interview with someone from BMT) has more complex drive system, think they were looking at American FFG(X) specs, but would love for the RN. Bet that uses MT30...

[Ron5]

I'm very surprised to hear the Bae salesman state that the Leander can only land helos up to 10-12 tonnes (eg NH90) and not Merlin. I would consider this to be a showstopper for the RN.

[donald_of_tokyo]

May be just a mistake?

NH90 and SH60's landing area "could" be smaller than that for Merlin, but in reality, MEKO200, FFG7, German frigates etc. all has a flight deck larger than that of T23. So, I guess Leander/Cutlass has a flight deck with a size Merlin capable. Listening to his talk, I am not confident he "wanted" to say the landing spot is for "up to 10-12tonnes helicopter".

..... BUT .....

Looking back the RFI, RFI_Cost_Return.xls, and Launch Folder Line Diagram V4, I found no mention of "Merlin capable" flight deck. It says, capability to handle Wildcat in rough sea (up to sea state 6), and hangar for 10t helo.

[benny14]

I'm very surprised to hear the Bae salesman state that the Leander can only land helos up to 10-12 tonnes

I thought the Merlin weighed between 10-12 tonnes.

[donald_of_tokyo]

If it is max take off weight, Merlin is 14-15t. NH90 and SH60 are both 10t, and Wildcat is 6t.

[Timmymagic]

If it is max take off weight, Merlin is 14-15t. NH90 and SH60 are both 10t, and Wildcat is 6t.

If it's max takeoff weight then it's a massive retrograde step away from the RN's aim to have an all helidecks capable of accommodating Merlin. But given the River's have a Merlin capable deck I suspect it was more the BAE sales guy mentioning NH-90 as a batch had just been sold to Qatar.

[Poiuytrewq]

Why would BAE design the Leander without a Merlin capable flight deck when the River Batch 2's are Merlin capable?

[Lord Jim]

It is probably simply cost. Aiming at exports, being able to operate helicopters up to the size of the NH-90 and SH-60 is all you need. The RN will have more than enough platforms capable of taking a Merlin, and so it hasn't been deemed necessary for the T-31e specs.

[Tempest414]

Arrowhead 120 states it has a Merlin capable flight deck and hangar for SH-60 NH-90 if type 31 is to be a true export success these should be a base line for this part of the ships capability.

The sales chap seemed to have little idea for how this ship could be used it was almost like you can throw some rubber dinggies in the mission bay past that he ran out of ideas very poor

[donald_of_tokyo]

As I said, many of export frigate has a Merlin capable flight deck.
Difference between Wildcat-capable deck and Merlin-capable deck is large, but NH90/SH60 capable vs Merlin capable is not. Anyway I do not think it is important point to discuss. See Khareef. It has a ~1 m extension on its flight deck. If the Leander's flight deck is NH90 capable, similar extension can make it Merlin capable easily. It is not expensive either.

[NickC]

Merlin ~16t v. ~Wildcat 6t.

Flight deck would have to stressed to take extra weight so need to be heavier/stronger, need extra space plus bigger heavier RAST, it will cost, where do you stop gold plating a built to minimum cost ship.

[Gabriele]

If we expand the definition of gold plating a little bit more, the mere existence of a hull will already be too much.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Merlin ~16t v. ~Wildcat 6t.

Flight deck would have to stressed to take extra weight so need to be heavier/stronger, need extra space plus bigger heavier RAST, it will cost, where do you stop gold plating a built to minimum cost ship.

Anyway RFI requires as a "core" to be capable to handle NH90. Don't be afraid, MEKO200 flight deck is 25m long, and Merlin capable. Its pretty common.