Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
52
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
14
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
127
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
22
4%
A modernised Type 23
24
5%
A Type 26-lite
71
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
4%
5 hulls
71
14%
More than 5 hulls
103
20%
 
Total votes: 506

andrew98
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by andrew98 »

Gabriele wrote:
The type 31e is not designed to escort, it's designed to maintain a global footprint and allow the 45's and 26's to protect the SSBN and escort the task group(s)
Have the 5 Type 23 ever been sufficient to do that? No.

And these things will literally do even less.
As you say, the GP 23's are not perfect, but a lot better than the 31e(conomy)

At least the Type 23's have capabilities like a bow sonar, torpedoes, Merlin flight deck/hangar for respectable ASW work (even in if no towed array / vds)
Sea Wolf/Camm gives self/local AAW,
4.5" and harpoon gives ASuW and some land attack capabilities

dmereifield
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

If we look at the following bolded core capabilities, is it fair to say that the worst case scenario would be(?):
30mm gun, NH90 / Wildcat sized hanger, CIWS, soft kill

Core: Electronic Support and Defensive Aids. (lay interpretation: soft kill)
Core: Point Defence Missile System (PDMS) + Sensors or Close in Weapon System + Fit to Receive PDMS
Core: Medium and smaller calibre guns
Core: Capable of fitting hull-mounted sonar (i.e. FFBNW)


If the ship is built with the above, and the remainder of the core requirements we will end up with what the T31 programme would deem to be the very minimum acceptable level T31. Which must cost no greater than £250 million. However, I believe that this should be interpreted as the minimal requirements of a baseline T31 – not the minimal requirements of a T31 for the RN, per se.

Following on from this, one thing that is not yet clear (unless I missed it) is what the actual T31 project budget is (for the first batch). It seems to be quite evident then that there will be a separate budget line for the design phase(s). So the batch 1 T31 budget is not only £1.25 billion. What is also interesting is that the NSS makes clear that “If Industry proves unable to meet the challenge, we will revise our plans.” Which, could (optimistically) be interpreted as meaning that the RN could possibly spend more than £250 million to get more kit on their T31 variant if they don’t like what’s on offer for £250 million.
So, perhaps the RN may end up with a little more than the core requirements in some areas.

Optimistically, maybe it ends up with:
5” gun, Sea Ceptor, Artisan, NH90 / Wildcat sized hanger, a bow ASW sonar, soft kill defences, a couple of RHIBs….with a minimum of 28 days endurance, 6500 nm and less than 100 core crew

Doesn't sound to bad, does it?

LordJim
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by LordJim »

Both France and Italy have fleets that lack many of the capabilities the RN will retain even with the introduction of the T-31. In additional we have the RFA which far surpasses the support capability of either of these navies. Yes their planned Light Frigates appear superior to the T-31 but their main line Frigates are inferior to the T-26 in many respects and neither has more then 2 vessels equal to the T-45 when it comes to AD. Both are good navies but they have been making compromises regarding the numbers and capabilities of their vessels for decades. To say this destroys the argument I laid out above is utter rubbish, and shows a total lack of realism in what the situation is regards defence resources and aspirations.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Spinflight »

I think I know what the design rationale for the Arrowhead was.

It involved tracing paper. And a deeply held desire to piss on Baes' chips. :D

It's a 4000t T26.

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FuNsTeR
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by FuNsTeR »

matt00773 wrote:
FuNsTeR wrote:
Jake1992 wrote: It also makes no sence as each T26 is meant to come in every 2 years, if the first isn't ready till 2026 the 8th won't be ready till around 2040 well after the OSD for the last T23
i can't see us build 8 type 26, i think the maximum we will build is probably 4 or 5 and the rest of the frigate fleet based on type 31s
So do you honestly think that after placing an initial order for 3, a future government would then place a follow on order of only 1-2? The government have stated clearly in the NSS and elsewhere that there will be 8 T26 ships, and they are required to perform AWS and carrier support duties.

What is the information you're exposed to that leads to you believe this?
remember the plan was originally for 12 Type 45s then it went down to 8 and we ended up with 6 the past has a habit of laying the foundations for the future at a £1 billion a pop we will always end up going down the cheaper route

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Spinflight »

That's clearly the threat.

Ok so three orders for £3.7 Bn. Lets say the first austere T31s come in on budget and at least one is doing a bit of floating in it's spare time come 2023 whilst HMS Argyll's crew get reroled prior to her scrapping. Meanwhile they're negotiating with Baes for the further 5 T26 and some bright spark at the MoD ( assumptions etc) decides it would be prudent to ask what a similarly specced T31 would cost... The answer wouldn't be over a billion quid.

So said bright spark then wonders whether the remaining four billion and odd wouldn't be better spent on T31s as the Chinook capable flight deck doesn't seem like quite such a great idea any more. Further T26s with their great range, provisioning and C+C capabilities being likely to sail almost alongside a whopping great big carrier with better C+C capabilities plus an RFA or two seems a bit.... Pointless?

Which would be the Pointless class? The one where we've gone down the well travelled road of delays, ballooning costs and reduced hull numbers for gold plated and more importantly Humphrey approved tubs or the fresh bright young thing that had it's kinks ironed out with austere versions before moving onto the more complicated versions?

What was Einstein's definition of madness again?

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by RetroSicotte »

dmereifield wrote:Optimistically, maybe it ends up with:
5” gun, Sea Ceptor, Artisan, NH90 / Wildcat sized hanger, a bow ASW sonar, soft kill defences, a couple of RHIBs….with a minimum of 28 days endurance, 6500 nm and less than 100 core crew

Doesn't sound to bad, does it?
It sounds pathetic.

As a note, we've had a big news reveal, so things are a bit more relaxed in here. But within a day or so we'll probably start hinting people back to 'news only' in here. Not at the moment, unless it gets crazy, but just a heads up.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

I think that there is more T31e money, just the MOD is holding it back. Tell people you have £350mn per ship to spend and guess what it comes in as £350mn, never £250mn...

I'd say if done rightly then there could could be the option of grouping a T26 with 2 or more T31s for certain tasks, especially if MHC capability is included.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by cockneyjock1974 »

None of us on this thread knows what the final specs will be, honestly you'd think we just reinvented the shite from the 60's and 70's. The RN says it will have war fighting capabilities, that's good enough for me just now and if it means 5-10 T31's launched with he haw but fitted out to high end later, then so be it.

Admiral Zamballas in the past stated he would rather have a smaller number of high end ships than a large fleet of ineffective ships. However I think the Navy/MOD is starting to realise as Brexit moves to fruition, that numbers matter as well.

It looks like we're going back to a two tier Navy of yesteryear, good.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

Repulse wrote:I think that there is more T31e money, just the MOD is holding it back. Tell people you have £350mn per ship to spend and guess what it comes in as £350mn, never £250mn...

I'd say if done rightly then there could could be the option of grouping a T26 with 2 or more T31s for certain tasks, especially if MHC capability is included.
It's a lovely idea. But we have a minority Government that is in absolute chaos. It's only interest is saving its ass and it can only view that through the prism of Brexit.

The economy could go any whichway, the £ is fucked, and the main instruction coming out of Whitehall to departments is not to do anything controversial... just act like you know what you're doing... publish a shipbuilding strategy or something.

Plans and proposals aren't worth the PDFs they're written on, and no-one really knows what their budget's going to look like.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

cockneyjock1974 wrote:Admiral Zamballas in the past stated he would rather have a smaller number of high end ships than a large fleet of ineffective ships. However I think the Navy/MOD is starting to realise as Brexit moves to fruition, that numbers matter as well.

It looks like we're going back to a two tier Navy of yesteryear, good.
I think the 1SL was quoting someone (pointedly?) when he included "it is not a race to the bottom" in his speech. which is linked upthread.
- and it was not his predecessor (for avoidance of doubt), but as per the quoted, the philosophy is changing; ASW by its nature is a distributed operation, and Power Projection calls for concentration of force (cfr. CEPP)
RichardIC wrote: Government that is in absolute chaos. Its only interest is saving its ass and it can only view that through the prism of Brexit.
Though I full heartedly agree about the Gvmnt in general, this thing we are talking about is sorting out a previous mess - and came about (was started) way before Brexit carried any likelihood of a serious nature.
- worthwhile to note in the "launch speeches" that there was a specific mention about the quantity to be produced being a decision for the next Gvmnt
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

As our toys will soon be gathered away
RetroSicotte wrote: we've had a big news reveal, so things are a bit more relaxed in here. But within a day or so we'll probably start hinting people back to 'news only' in here. Not at the moment, unless it gets crazy, but just a heads up.
there is actually a thread suited for discussing where these ships (and how many would thus be required) fit in the bigger picture, the one started by Enigmatically:
"As I have said before, most of the discussions are arse about face on here, because you are picking your favoured designs without first saying what the requirement is (or indeed knowing much about the design apart from the visible bits).

So let's start from a different angle. You have been appointed minister for defence. You have to define what it is you want the navy to be able to do in 10-35 years." which is an angle fitting nicely with the 30-yr plan
- while noting that the plan published is v much the 1st draft and hence titled "Forecast" rather than "The Plan"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Zero Gravitas
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Zero Gravitas »

Is the intention that the 'adaptable' capabilities are either utilised or not at the point of build, or are they an extensive list of capabilities that could be easily installed, (ie somewhere around a FFBNW or a modular approach) once the ship is in use?

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Where would you use these "presence" ships? Let's not start from the Standing Tasks, as that list is well recited (might end up close, by coincidence ;) ):
Pinch points? Gib? A strong NATO navy (several - Rota :) ) -nearby.

The Straits (yes, there are several), but every one in the neighbourhood (Watch?) is on "our side":
- Singapore, Malaysia, India, Australia, USN, Japan (the only time they failed to show up for the joint exercises was in the immediate aftermath of the tsunami)
- so, just occasionally turning up, showing ready and willing, is enough

Hormuz? We might see the MTF making an appearance every now and then. And we do contribute the MCM force. Ragardless, Babcock is building a facility of scale in Oman, so one T31 (taking turns or forward based) could cover both Hormuz and Bab el Mandep out of there

Falklands? Yes, they say that HMS Clyde will also be disposed of (with the Batch 1s)

So how many will it take to generate the above, including the "roaming ambassador"? Surely not 3 x 3?
- ambassador when available (0.5?)
- forward based less than on rotation (1.5?)
- Falklands (rotation) 2
- one in work up/ general training for new crews/ refit or upgrading
=> 5 (surprise?)

So, let's worry about something else (as it all comes out of the same budget). The MTF now covered for escorts (with the T31s relieving them, to use their full potential)
- SSN force down to 6; not enough. Production schedules for the SSN/SSBN classes share a pinch point that relates to their propulsion, not so much to building them in parallel
- against a Tier 1 opponent a one and only MTF; lacking interoperability in the ABM area (are we a free-rider, then?)
- hugely long time to ramp up an amphibious force from the "ready group" level; antiquated NGFS means except on units that we are not readily placing too close to shore?; the recent pruning down of the Cdos with any heavy weapons to just two (where are the joint exercises with the army, so that the landed force can easily be scaled up and the "specialists" just open the door?)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by james k »

I think the Army exercising with the Royal Marines/Navy is reliant on proximity. Units based in the south and south west do get the opportunity, certainly my son a member of The Rifles has had several opportunities recently where experience gained in his former trade as RLC Mariner have been utilised. I know of several other infantry and armoured units, regular and reserve, who exercise with the Royal Marines and 17 Port & Maritime, often at Browndown Beach near Lee on the Solent.

"hugely long time to ramp up an amphibious force from the "ready group" level; antiquated NGFS means except on units that we are not readily placing too close to shore?; the recent pruning down of the Cdos with any heavy weapons to just two (where are the joint exercises with the army, so that the landed force can easily be scaled up and the "specialists" just open the door?)"

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by SKB »

First Sea Lord outlines the Royal Navy’s requirements for the Type 31e frigate.

Speech delivered by Admiral Sir Philip Jones, First Sea Lord on Thursday 7th September 2017:
Minister, ladies and gentlemen, it’s a pleasure to speak to you today, in the midst of a hugely exciting few weeks for the Royal Navy and the UK’s maritime industrial sector.

As the minister mentioned, when HMS Queen Elizabeth arrived in Portsmouth last month, I described it as a triumph of strategic ambition and a lesson for the future, and I really meant it.

Here was a project first initiated 20 years ago, in which time it outlasted 3 prime ministers, 8 defence secretaries and 7 First Sea Lords. It survived 5 general elections, 3 defence reviews and more planning rounds than I care to remember.

But despite all these twists and turns, the project endured and, in doing so proved to the world, and to ourselves, that we still have what it takes to be a great maritime industrial nation.

Now, in the National Shipbuilding Strategy, we have an opportunity to maintain the momentum.

So my reason for being here today is two-fold. Firstly, to outline the Royal Navy’s requirement for the Type 31e by describing the kind of ship we’re looking for and it’s place in our future fleet.

Secondly, to emphasise our commitment to working with you, our industry partners, to build on what we’ve achieved with the Queen Elizabeth class, and to bring about a stronger and more dynamic shipbuilding sector which can continue to prosper and grow in the years ahead.

Requirement
The Royal Navy’s requirement for a general purpose frigate is, in the first instance, driven by the government’s commitment to maintain our current force of 19 frigates and destroyers.

The 6 Type 45 destroyers are still new in service, but our 13 Type 23 frigates are already serving beyond their original design life.

They remain capable, but to extend their lives any further is no longer viable from either an economic or an operational perspective.

Eight of those Type 23s are specifically equipped for anti-submarine warfare and these will be replaced on a one-for-one basis by the new Type 26 frigate.

As such, we look to the Type 31e to replace the remaining 5 remaining general purpose variants.

This immediately gives you an idea of both the urgency with which we view this project, and how it fits within our future fleet.

In order to continue meeting our current commitments, we need the Type 31e to fulfil routine tasks to free up the more complex Type 45 destroyers and Type 26 frigates for their specialist combat roles in support of the strategic nuclear deterrent and as part of the carrier strike group.

So although capable of handling itself in a fight, the Type 31e will be geared toward maritime security and defence engagement, including the fleet ready escort role at home, our fixed tasks in the South Atlantic, the Caribbean and the Gulf, and our NATO commitments.

These missions shape our requirements.

There is more detail in your handout but, broadly speaking, the Type 31e will need a hangar and flight deck for both a small helicopter and unmanned air vehicle, accommodation to augment the ship’s company with a variety of mission specialists as required, together with stowage for sea boats, disaster relief stores and other specialist equipment.

It will be operated by a core ships company of between 80-100 men and women and it needs to be sufficiently flexible to incorporate future developments in technology, including unmanned systems and novel weaponry as they come to the fore, so open architecture and modularity are a must.

All this points towards a credible, versatile frigate, capable of independent and sustained global operations.

Now I want to be absolutely clear about what constitutes a frigate in the eyes of the Royal Navy.

In Nelson’s time, a first rate ship like HMS Victory was a relative scarcity compared with smaller, more lightly armed frigates.

They wouldn’t take their place in the line of battle, but they were fast, manoeuvrable and flew the White Ensign in many of the far flung corners of the world where the UK had vital interests.

More recently, the navy I joined still had general purpose frigates like the Leander, Rothesay and Tribal class and, later, the Type 21s, which picked up many of the routine patrol tasks and allowed the specialist ASW frigates to focus on their core NATO role.

It was only when defence reductions at the end of the Cold War brought difficult choices that we moved to an all high end force.

So forgive the history lesson, but the point I’m making is the advent of a mixed force of Type 31 and Type 26 frigates is not a new departure for the Royal Navy, nor is it a ‘race to the bottom’; rather it marks a return to the concept of a balanced fleet.

And the Type 31e is not going to be a glorified patrol vessel or a cut price corvette. It’s going to be, as it needs to be, a credible frigate that reflects the time honoured standards and traditions of the Royal Navy.

Ambition
In order to maintain our current force levels, the first Type 31e must enter service as the as the first general purpose Type 23, HMS Argyll, leaves service in 2023.

Clearly that’s a demanding timescale, which means the development stage must be undertaken more quickly than for any comparable ship since the Second World War.

But while this programme may be initially focused on our requirements for the 2020s, we must also look to the 2030s and beyond.

You know how busy the Royal Navy is and I won’t labour the point, suffice to say international security is becoming more challenging, threats are multiplying and demands on the navy are growing.

Added to this is that, as we leave the European Union, the UK is looking to forge new trading partnerships around the world.

Put simply, Global Britain needs a global Navy to match.

It is therefore significant that the government has stated in its manifesto, and again through the National Shipbuilding Strategy, that it views the Type 31e as a means to grow the overall size of the Royal Navy by the 2030s.

If we can deliver a larger fleet, then we can strengthen and potentially expand the Royal Navy’s reach to provide the kind of long term presence upon which military and trading alliances are built.

Delivery
This is a hugely exciting prospect, but we must first master the basics.

We can all think of examples of recent projects which have begun with the right intentions, only for timescales to slip, requirements to change and costs to soar.

As Sir John Parker highlighted in his report last year, we end up with a vicious cycle where fewer, more expensive, ships enter service late, and older ships are retained well beyond their sell by date and become increasingly expensive to maintain.

So we need to develop the Type 31e differently if we’re going to break out of that cycle.

We’ve said that the unit price must not exceed £250 million.

For the Royal Navy, this means taking a hard-headed, approach in setting our requirements to keep costs down, while maintaining a credible capability, and then having the discipline to stick to those requirements to allow the project to proceed at pace.

It also means playing our part to help win work for the UK shipbuilding sector from overseas.

So the challenge is to produce a design which is credible, affordable and exportable.

Adaptability is key, we need a design based on common standards, but which offers different customers the ability to specify different configurations and capabilities without the need for significant revisions.

So while it may be necessary to make trade offs in the name of competitiveness, export success means longer production runs, greater economies of scale and lower unit costs, and therein lies the opportunity to increase the size of the Royal Navy.

With a growing fleet it would be perfectly possible for the Royal Navy to forward deploy Type 31e frigates to places like Bahrain Singapore and the South Atlantic, just as we do with some of our smaller vessels today.

If our partners in these regions were to buy or build their own variants, then we could further reduce costs through shared support solutions and common training.

And because of the Royal Navy’s own reputation as a trusted supplier of second hand warships, we could look to sell our own Type 31’s at the midpoint of their lives and reinvest the savings into follow-on batches.

So by bringing the Royal Navy’s requirements in line with the demands of the export market, we have the opportunity to replace the vicious circle with a virtuous one.

And beyond the Type 31e, the benefits could apply to the Royal Navy’s longer term requirements, beginning with the fleet solid support ship but also including our future amphibious shipping and eventually the replacement for the Type 45 destroyers as well as other projects that may emerge.

Ultimately, the prize is a more competitive and resilient industrial capacity: one that is better able to withstand short term political and economic tides and can serve the Royal Navy’s long term needs.

Conclusion
So, in drawing to a close, I believe we have a precious opportunity before us.

My father worked at the Cammell Laird shipyard for over 40 years. It was visiting him there as a schoolboy and seeing new ships and submarines taking shape that provided one of the key inspirations for me to join the Royal Navy, nearly 40 years ago.

And yet, for most of my career, the fleet has become progressively smaller while the UK shipbuilding sector contracted to such an extent that it reached the margins of sustainability.

But with the Queen Elizabeth class carriers, and the 6 yards involved in their build, we demonstrated that shipbuilding has the potential to be a great British success story once again.

Far beyond Rosyth, we’ve seen green shoots emerging in shipbuilding across the country, and throughout the supply chain, driven by a new entrepreneurial ambition.

Now the National Shipbuilding Strategy has charted a bold and ambitious plan to capitalise on that and reverse the decline.

And in the Type 31e, we have the chance to develop a ship that can support our national security and our economic prosperity in the decades to come.

The navy is ready and willing.

Now we look to you, our partners in industry, to bring your expertise, your innovation and your ambition to bear in this endeavour.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by abc123 »

andrew98 wrote:
marktigger wrote:its doesn't matter what the ships are like what makes them special is the Crews
Would you volunteer to be amazing crew ona heavy opv with limited sensors and practically no weaponry?
The Royal Navy have bigger balls than me!


I think a law should be introduced saying there has to be a senior politician aboard at all times at sea and potentially in harms way (locked up of course)
Fully agreed. :lol:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…


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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by SKB »

Babcock Arrowhead 120



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Image

A retractable emergency propellor?!

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

I'm going to get crucified for this comment, but realistically with the breadth of the adaptability scope taking it from an extended River class towards a T26/T45 are we trying to build something that is aimed at everyone, but pleases no-one? There must be a cost of adaptability, like modularity, which is only useful if needed.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Gabriele »

The video (link above^) shows it has a retractable emergency propellor!
Nothing excessively new. The FREMM has one too. Or at least, the italian FREMM does. In theory you can limp at 7 knots with it.
Is the intention that the 'adaptable' capabilities are either utilised or not at the point of build, or are they an extensive list of capabilities that could be easily installed, (ie somewhere around a FFBNW or a modular approach) once the ship is in use?
The way i see it, the Adaptable are features that must be relatively simple to add, at build if the design is exported. Not sure how much of that would be in the RN product, even as a "maybe later". Think for example of the Merlin hangar: if you build them with a small hangar, there is almost certainly no fixing that afterwards.

The Royal Navy has compiled a list of core requirements deliberately humiliatingly poor, in the hope that industry will be able to offer a design that incorporates some of the "adaptable" features within 250 million.
CAMM will be the very first thing, i think, and a Merlin hangar is probably high up on the list of what the RN would like to still get.

Build as large a hangar as you can, in general. You'll never regret having a large hangar. Having a small one will handicap you forever. Not to mention that the RN does not know how large the future RWUAS, or indeed any UAS system, might be. What does "Wildcat + UAS" mean? What UAS is being used to determine the space? Firescout? Firescout B or C? SW-4 SOLO? Scan Eagle? There are wildly different things out there, and the RN doesn't have a clue yet what UAS it might manage to get.
If i had to give a suggestion would be: stay the hell away from any "dog kennel" concept. Chances are your UAS will not fit inside it in the end.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The video (link above^) shows it has a retractable emergency propellor!



Nothing excessively new. The FREMM has one too. Or at least, the italian FREMM does. In theory you can limp at 7 knots with it.
In this case,
is it retractable or podded. The latter is common in cruise ships and icebreakers, to enhance manouvreability (in harbors for which they are almost too big, for the former, and changing the axis of push/ pull manoeuvres where ice is giving some difficulty for the latter).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by SKB »


sea_eagle
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by sea_eagle »

I like this one in the Frigate version, how much for 10 please? :lol:
At 45secs in shows an emergency propulsion feature, do any RN ships have this today, seems novel?

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Gabriele
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Post by Gabriele »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
The video (link above^) shows it has a retractable emergency propellor!



Nothing excessively new. The FREMM has one too. Or at least, the italian FREMM does. In theory you can limp at 7 knots with it.
In this case,
is it retractable or podded. The latter is common in cruise ships and icebreakers, to enhance manouvreability (in harbors for which they are almost too big, for the former, and changing the axis of push/ pull manoeuvres where ice is giving some difficulty for the latter).

It is retractable.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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