Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[marktigger]

frigate can also be there in more adverse conditions. a

[ArmChairCivvy]

A trade-ff between persistence and the overall area that can be covered/ further focussed on, after an initial sighting?
=> need both, but at what cost mix?

Sequals always sell best?

[seaspear]

Since the P.M is in China perhaps some Chinese naval vessels could be looked at to meet costs, a version of the 053h-3 light frigate used by the Pakistan navy weighing in around U.S$200 might be considered a bargain by the M.O.D , just kidding of course

[marktigger]

i wonder should they be like the flower class brought in for a short while till we can afford something better!

[shark bait]

PS Incheon is Cutlass size, not Venator size. It is smaller than ANZAC and many of the MEKO200s. I think it is good for coastal work, but its low freeboard makes me a little concerned. (north Atlantic capable?)

Sorry I was refering to the Incheon batch 2, now called the Daegu-class. It's a slightly larger, slightly more capable frigate.

What makes it interesting is its the only light frigate in the works that hits all the minimum requirements to be classed as credible. It would be of great value for the Royal Navy to study what the Koreans have achieved.

• Mk 45 Mod 4 naval gun system
• Torpedo launchers
• SeaRAM
• Two quad ASM launchers
• Phalanx
• 16-cell K-VLS
• COLAG
• MT30
• 8,000mi range
• 30 knot's
• 120 crew
• Hangar and flight deck
• 10-ton helicopter

Looks quite nice there. Would that be perfect if fitted to the venator platform?

[abc123]

Since the P.M is in China perhaps some Chinese naval vessels could be looked at to meet costs, a version of the 053h-3 light frigate used by the Pakistan navy weighing in around U.S$200 might be considered a bargain by the M.O.D , just kidding of course

Pride goes before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall... But let us continue mocking China that managed to build 25 type 054 frigates while the UK struggles to even start construction of first Type 26...

[seaspear]

I dont think anyone is mocking China ,especially its military expansions

[donald_of_tokyo]

Sorry I was refering to the Incheon batch 2, now called the Daegu-class. It's a slightly larger, slightly more capable frigate.
What makes it interesting is its the only light frigate in the works that hits all the minimum requirements to be classed as credible. It would be of great value for the Royal Navy to study what the Koreans have achieved.

• Mk 45 Mod 4 naval gun system
• Torpedo launchers
• SeaRAM
• Two quad ASM launchers
• Phalanx
• 16-cell K-VLS
• COLAG
• MT30
• 8,000mi range
• 30 knot's
• 120 crew
• Hangar and flight deck
• 10-ton helicopter

Looks quite nice there. Would that be perfect if fitted to the venator platform?

Interesting ship, I think. By the way, I think it is not much different from Venator 110 we were talking about.
- Mk.45 5inch gun
- 24 CAMM-VLS in place of SeaRAM and SAMs on 16-cell K-VLS
- 8 ASM launcher (re-used from T23mod)
- Phalanx, FFBNW
- CODAD --> better be CODLAD, I agree
- MT30 if you like --> I do not think it is needed
- 7000nm range
- 27kts
- ?? crew
- Hangar and flight deck
- medium helocopter
The only difference I can see is the 16-KVLS. But, I do not think ALL frigate MUST be equipped with land-attach missile (8 canistered LRASM or NSM is enough). 24 CAMM will be also enough. So, I do not see big difference there.

The big difference actually comes from the fact that S.Korea is very good at ship building, while UK is not. So the cost may differ.

[seaspear]

@Donald Thanks for the information is it known what the costs are for the South Korean light frigates , with the use of vls if the ship was attached to carrier duties and was carrying longer ranged aa missiles ,they would contribute more to the defense of the carrier group

[The Armchair Soldier]

Please Read Before Posting:
To prevent important news items from being bogged down by general discussion, we have decided to split this topic. This topic will now be used for news only. You are encouraged to post news in this thread - as well as discuss it - but please do not allow your discussions to meander onto other topics and keep speculation to a minimum.

For general discussion, please use the newly-created Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion topic. Within that topic, you may discuss the Type 31 more broadly, as well as the current and future escort fleet in general.

Please Private Message an administrator if you need further clarification on these changes.

[GibMariner]

House of Commons defence debate yesterday relating to the general purpose frigate:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... -12a.591.0

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... -12a.591.7

[Ron5]

"We are in the process of providing our armed forces with more ships, more aircraft and more equipment than ever before."

Harriet once again making a rather debatable assertion. Her party has yet to order a major warship since they returned to government and has severely cut the defence budget. The UK forces are at historic lows in terms of servicemen/women, tanks, aircraft & ships.

[marktigger]

yeap lies dammed lies and government statements

[clinch]

@Ron5 Not so much a debateable assertion as an outright lie. Politicians don't seem to care any more that we know they are lying. Cameron was a prime example.

[GibMariner]

Frigates:Written question - 43690

Asked by Mr Kevan Jones(North Durham)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what steps is he taking to ensure that the General Purpose Frigate programme leverages the wider supply chain built up for the Queen Elizabeth-class carrier programme and takes advantage of skills in design, engineering, manufacturing, integration, and assurance resident outside BAE Systems.

Type 26 Frigates:Written question - 43692

Asked by Mr Kevan Jones(North Durham)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether he expects that the build facilities selected as the build location for both the Type 26 frigate programme and the General Purpose Frigate will be able to deliver both platforms concurrently.

Answered by: Harriett Baldwin

We have begun the initial pre-concept work to take forward the new General Purpose Frigate (GPFF) programme outlined in the White Paper 'National Security Strategy and Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015'. The work is in the very early stages and it is too early to say what either the build strategy or the detailed supply chain arrangements may be.
In addition, as part of his work leading the National Shipbuilding Strategy, Sir John Parker will be considering how to balance the GPFF requirement against export opportunities and industrial capacity.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -20/43690/

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -20/43692/

[rec]

It looks like the BMT Venator is the front runner in the T31 stakes. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/venator ... t-frigate/

[abc123]

It looks like the BMT Venator is the front runner in the T31 stakes. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/venator ... t-frigate/

If I read that article right, Venator 110 should be modern version of Type 23? Or, Type 26 without TLAMs...

[RetroSicotte]

Note that report mentions (with a picture from BMT themselves) that 24x CAMM plus 8x Mk41 cells is now possible on it.

That is very interesting in changing the game of that ship. (Endless discussions to the escorts thread on that one, please!)

[Ron5]

It looks like the BMT Venator is the front runner in the T31 stakes. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/venator ... t-frigate/

If I read that article right, Venator 110 should be modern version of Type 23? Or, Type 26 without TLAMs...

Except the Type 23 & 26 were designed for ASW as priority #1 and the Venator has zero ASW capability.

[jimthelad]

HF sonar is listed in the diagram and Wildcat could be fitted with Flash-2 ?!? Or is it that the BAe entry is now on the backfoot is now irking you. Given the 2050 arrays are being updated/upgraded on T23 these might find their way onto these ships(still the industry gold standard for hull mounted sonar).

[Enigmatically]

I disagree Jim,

Hull mounted sonar and a helo does not a world class ASW ship make. Nor is their any intention it should be.

I'd be careful about saying that BMT are a front-runner too. That article has a heavy hint of being based on a BMT note. I think the Venator looks a good design, and certainly in contention, but front-runner seems a bit strong.

Remember that the Clyde has been promised the build of these ships too. That throws a complication in

[ArmChairCivvy]

rec wrote:
It looks like the BMT Venator is the front runner in the T31 stakes. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/venator ... t-frigate/

If I read that article right, Venator 110 should be modern version of Type 23

Except the Type 23 & 26 were designed for ASW as priority #1 and the Venator has zero ASW capability.

Putting all of that together
1. a 4 kt hull, havng been proven for global deployability
2. a " modern version" of the GP T23
3. ASW capability, and of what ilk, if any... there is the question!

[marktigger]

It looks like the BMT Venator is the front runner in the T31 stakes. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/venator ... t-frigate/

If I read that article right, Venator 110 should be modern version of Type 23? Or, Type 26 without TLAMs...

Except the Type 23 & 26 were designed for ASW as priority #1 and the Venator has zero ASW capability.

why does it have to have asw capability?

[RetroSicotte]

Edging toward escort discussion on that one. Over to the discussion thread for that, please.

[GibMariner]

Frigates:Written question - 46000

Asked by Douglas Chapman(Dunfermline and West Fife)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, when he expects the pre-concept phase activity for the General Purpose Frigate programme to conclude.

Answered by: Harriett Baldwin

It is too soon to say when the pre-concept phase will conclude.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -12/46000/