Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[Gabriele]

And here come the underwhelming proposals for this confused programme idea. http://www.janes.com/article/62246/bae- ... e-concepts

Avenger, a stretched River Batch 2; and Cutlass, a stretched Khareef which already is a stretched River Batch 2 herself.

[RichardIC]

Good God! What a freaky looking thing. Can't see the entire 729 words clearly, but this looks like a patrol boat with a 5" gun slammed on the front.

I'm pretty agnostic on the whole Type 31 thing IF it delivers an increase in hulls (hopelessly naive I know), but for Heaven's sake!

And what about Cutlass (which is a proper twatty sounding name)?

[SKB]

Looks like a stretched River class, with a gun.
Oh, it is! http://www.janes.com/article/62246/bae- ... e-concepts

[ArmChairCivvy]

aimed to replace the oldest T23s that don't carry TAS.

Much behind in wading through this thread, just wanted to check if it is the the oldest T23s w/o TAS?
- if so, the refit prgrm for the whole class could be affected (not only reordered),
and the T31 indeed accelerated

And what about Cutlass (which is a proper twatty sounding name)?

- it was a proper aircraft!

[downsizer]

Looks like a stretched River class, with a gun. Oh, it is!
http://www.janes.com/article/62246/bae- ... e-concepts

No need to repost the link, someone beat you to that already! (Somehow)

[RetroSicotte]

What a load of utter bollocks.

Exactly what everyone was fearing. They make an OPV and just call it a frigate to spin the name alone with no care for capability.

I'll keep saying this again and again because it's utterly true. Checkbox military strikes again!

[Gabriele]

The worst part is that i bet the pricetag somehow ends up being retardedly high even if the ship is an abomination.

[RetroSicotte]

Well, consider that the basically unarmed low level OPV version of it cost what, £350m for 3?

Granted, that had Clyde price hikes for political blackmail, but still.

This is perhaps the biggest disaster of a design I've ever seen for the UK. Come on Babcock and BMT I guess?

[WhitestElephant]

Any specifications on the two proposals?

[Galloglass]

So the RN is getting stretched Rivers as Frigates.........BUT...........this is exactly what this forum predicted so well done all.

[SKB]

The 'Avenger' design (stretched River) is only a concept, the Janes page clearly says so.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Fortunately these appear to only be BAE's proposals. Nothing to say that BAE will be responsible for the end design. Still, if this is what is being proposed then, at this stage, it looks like our worst nightmares might be coming true...

[Caribbean]

BAE proposals - what else do you expect - f*** all else in the design cupboard and no interest in finding their own markets. Zero commercial acumen

As for their designs - delete all the crap and just build a couple of larger OPVs for the Caribbean and sundry longer range tasks. Then ignore and get on with building some proper frigates to someone else's designs

[Ron5]

BAE proposals - what else do you expect - f*** all else in the design cupboard and no interest in finding their own markets. Zero commercial acumen

As for their designs - delete all the crap and just build a couple of larger OPVs for the Caribbean and sundry longer range tasks. Then ignore and get on with building some proper frigates to someone else's designs

Huh?

This IS their market, they've been successful selling Rivers and derivatives.

I like a good rant but this isn't very well aimed.

[Engaging Strategy]

Suddenly the BMT Venator 110 is looking pretty attractive. Also *hopefully* these are just the initial concepts for BAE's low-end offerings, as sources seemed to indicate the MoD were considering ships on a pretty broad spectrum of capability. I can see why they've opted to stretch existing designs though: simplifies things greatly if they're told to build it any time soon. Agree with all though, "Avenger" isn't a frigate and it's not even pretending to be one.

[marktigger]

maybe with the Scottish Nationalists playing indyref roulette the government should look at other Non Govan based procurement solutions

[GibMariner]

aimed to replace the oldest T23s that don't carry TAS.

Much behind in wading through this thread, just wanted to check if it is the the oldest T23s w/o TAS?
- if so, the refit prgrm for the whole class could be affected (not only reordered),
and the T31 indeed accelerated

Yes, it's the 5 oldest Type 23s that didn't get the sonar 2087: Argyll, Lancaster, Iron Duke, Monmouth, Montrose. I was under the impression that these five would be decommissioning at the end of their (extended) lives, with the current "ASW" models becoming "GP" ones as kit is transferred to the incoming Type 26... however with the never-ending delays and the upcoming shipbuilding strategy, who knows? Perhaps this shipbuilding strategy will shed some light before the end of 2016.

I must say, based on just the short intro to the Jane's piece, conceptually, the Venator looks like a better "frigate" (never thought I'd say that, but this "Avenger" OPV abomination looks like a terrible concept). Hopefully this is only just one of many concepts at this stage, the bare minimum perhaps.

[Caribbean]

This IS their market

That's OPV's and (to quote APATS over on TD) "comedy corvettes" - not frigates. And what else DO they have in their design locker?

Perfect hit, I would say - but please continue waving the flag for BAE.

[Cooper]

That BMT Venator 110 looks like a super yacht with a gun stuck on it.

Maybe we should buy 20 of those but lease out 10 of them to the worlds ever increasing pool of Billionaires during peace time.

[marktigger]

venator should be used as OPV with the river going to Border agency or sold overseas

[Caribbean]

the MoD were considering ships on a pretty broad spectrum of capability

True - and this is clearly at the pimped OPV end of the spectrum. It doesn't look as if BAE have put much effort into this either, so hopefully it's an indication that they don't expect to be seriously considered (though maybe I'm just clutching at straws). To be fair, a stretched River B2 might be a reasonable outcome for the two (or is it three) remaining OPVs.

[Engaging Strategy]

True - and this is clearly at the pimped OPV end of the spectrum. It doesn't look as if BAE have put much effort into this either, so hopefully it's an indication that they don't expect to be seriously considered (though maybe I'm just clutching at straws). To be fair, a stretched River B2 might be a reasonable outcome for the two (or is it three) remaining OPVs.

I very much get the impression that "Avenger" (Stretched River w/5" gun) and "Cutlass" (Stretched Khareef) are lazy obvious options for BAE. Simply take existing designs and add a bit more hull. Would make sense for the 2x remaining Rivers, although I've a feeling they'll probably just be B2 standard or slight variations on that design rather than the significantly stretched "Avenger".

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Suddenly the BMT Venator 110 is looking pretty attractive. Also *hopefully* these are just the initial concepts for BAE's low-end offerings, as sources seemed to indicate the MoD were considering ships on a pretty broad spectrum of capability. I can see why they've opted to stretch existing designs though: simplifies things greatly if they're told to build it any time soon. Agree with all though, "Avenger" isn't a frigate and it's not even pretending to be one.

I've always had my hat in the Venator's ring. Lob a medium range towed sonar array on the back of it, work in a few noise reduction measures and bob’s your uncle - a credible vessel, successfully bridging the gap between low end, general purpose tasks and high end warfighting. Really never understood people’s resistance to it on here.

[Cooper]

So I assume an order for the Venator 110 would result in big job losses on the Clyde?


...which is of course why it won't be chosen, unless the Scot's actually get a move on and jump ship in the next 12mths.

[RichardIC]

So I assume an order for the Venator 110 would result in big job losses on the Clyde?

Not necessarily. Venator 110 is a BMT concept. BMT are a design house not a manufacturer. They could team with BAE to build on the Clyde - and Government may stipulate it.