Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[ArmChairCivvy]

they definitely have superior access

Yep, hope they can also filter the stuff rather than 'be used' and the 'sources' thereby washing their hands (don't mean RUSI; hence left it out of the quote)

parallels pretty closely the way the Danish brought the IHs into service

Yes. They have the AD missiles in the 5-yr budget now running and the ABM 'biggies' then in the next one (though I think the radar upgrades are already being done)
- so for the first one, in service and forward deploying in 2027, I'm sure we can beef up the surface defences with a couple of autocannons on the bridge (and add something else to the EP for the years thereafter)

[Roders96]

they definitely have superior access

Yep, hope they can also filter the stuff rather than 'be used' and the 'sources' thereby washing their hands (don't mean RUSI; hence left it out of the quote)

parallels pretty closely the way the Danish brought the IHs into service

Yes. They have the AD missiles in the 5-yr budget now running and the ABM 'biggies' then in the next one (though I think the radar upgrades are already being done)
- so for the first one, in service and forward deploying in 2027, I'm sure we can beef up the surface defences with a couple of autocannons on the bridge (and add something else to the EP for the years thereafter)

Oh absolutely, may also be Robert trying to provide a modicum of balance to what is a comprehensively skewed balance of recent information.

May not be, though.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Above says no chance of them all being commissioned by 2030, so that means 2 years of extra work for the last of batch. Makes you wonder what they're planning.

So accepted off contract following trials from Babcock, and then straight into a further round of mods at, for instance, Devonport?

And where's the money coming from to pay for that? Seems highly unlikely to me. If not plain daft.

It parallels pretty closely the way the Danish brought the IHs into service, the money is -literally- already in the budget (the extra £750m), and it ties in with everything else I've heard.

The Times journos walk the halls of RUSI, they definitely have superior access to more (public) knowledge than you or I.

Because of paywall, I cannot read through the times article. If they say "not all be commissioned by 2030", I thought it means the 5th hull will be commission in 2030? No surprise.

Delivery schedule shows the 5th hull will be delivered at the end of 2028. With 1 year and a few days of RN training, it is now somewhere January 2030. If so, consistent with Babcock's press release.

[MikeKiloPapa]

It's been debated endlessly but the only real reason to choose the 76mm over the 57mm is NGFS..

But apparently not enough, because while the Bofors gun might very well fulfill the requirements , saying that 57mm=76mm , is simply not true. The 76mm is a bigger , more powerful and capable system. period. It has higher throw weight, much longer effective range and fires a much bigger shell with a considerably higher Pk. against pretty much any target. Ironically the only role where there isnt much difference is in NGFS , where both 57 and 76mm are about equally worthless.
And for all the hype about 3P ammo, the italians have been making a more effective 76mm equivalent for decades(called 4AP) and atm has access to more advanced ammo natures ( DART and Vulcano), while ORKA and Mad-fires are little more than promises at this stage.

[MikeKiloPapa]

https://www.babcockinternational.com/ne ... ss-update/
Analysis:
See diagram shown at 10:52 of the movie clip.
- Core crew is 105 not 90 (as expected, original "90" was just a sales talk). Added with air-crew, it will be 120 or so.

Seems about right ....90 was always a bit too optimistic tbh. Iver Huitfeldt itself went from 101 to now 123 core crew +helo detachment etc.

- Max speed stated as 26.1 knots, not 30 knots (Might be 100% MCR vs 80% MCR?)

I wouldnt read too much into that really......BAEs own website lists T45 @ 27kts and T26 at +26kts.....and gets their displacement figures wrong too. Its all probably a bit of deliberate misinformation to try to hide the real capabilities of the platforms.

In any case as Babcock clearly states that they have made no major design changes from the basic IH design, im confident that T31 will have speed, range and endurance figures at least matching, if not exceeding those of its parent design. F362 Peter Willemoes was clocked at 31 Kts during sea trials so that the hull is capable of ~30kts speeds is indisputable. T31 having the same hull and engines range should also be well over 9000Nm @18kts. Regardless of what a dubious marketing blurb says.

Oh and btw Donald-San.....ship maximum speed is almost always defined at 90% MCR at vessel full load displacement. Which in IHs case is 28 Kts at 6645t, projected to fall down to 26.7Kts with a 10 % lightship displacement increase.

[MikeKiloPapa]

Dont know if this has been posted elsewhere, but could possibly be relevant to T31 :
https://navalnews.net/sh-defence-presen ... l-vessels/

Would undoubtedly improve the flexibility and utility of T31.....but being yeat another NIH system might prove a brigde too far?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Love that CIWS that is revealed when the boat bay opens
... somebody calculated on a dead zone? WRONG!

Just that the door will need to be changed to 'up & over' for the tracking radar to work correctly https://i0.wp.com/navalnews.net/wp-cont ... C541&ssl=1

[NickC]

Max speed stated as 26.1 knots, not 30 knots[/b] (Might be 100% MCR vs 80% MCR?)

I wouldnt read too much into that really......BAEs own website lists T45 @ 27kts and T26 at +26kts.....and gets their displacement figures wrong too. Its all probably a bit of deliberate misinformation to try to hide the real capabilities of the platforms.

In any case as Babcock clearly states that they have made no major design changes from the basic IH design, im confident that T31 will have speed, range and endurance figures at least matching, if not exceeding those of its parent design. F362 Peter Willemoes was clocked at 31 Kts during sea trials so that the hull is capable of ~30kts speeds is indisputable. T31 having the same hull and engines range should also be well over 9000Nm @18kts. Regardless of what a dubious marketing blurb says.

Oh and btw Donald-San.....ship maximum speed is almost always defined at 90% MCR at vessel full load displacement. Which in IHs case is 28 Kts at 6645t, projected to fall down to 26.7Kts with a 10 % lightship displacement increase.

Thx for your informative post, question have seen OMT quote IH displacement as 6645t max, do you know if its FLD of EOL, EOL can be up to 10% higher than FLD, built in allowance for future weight growth, all navy ships put on weight thru life, eg was mention of fitting CAPTAS-4 to IH at one time, think you mentioned funding now allocated to adding BMD capability.

Range OMT quoted 9,300 nm at 18 knots sea state 0, Capt Kristian Haumann of HDMS Peter Willemoes quoted 14-16 knots for nearly 10,000 nm, IH one of the longest range deestroyers/frigates know of which adds additional operational capability as not so dependent on limited number of replenishment oilers.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Dont know if this has been posted elsewhere, but could possibly be relevant to T31 :
https://navalnews.net/sh-defence-presen ... l-vessels/
Would undoubtedly improve the flexibility and utility of T31.....but being yeat another NIH system might prove a brigde too far?

Love that CIWS that is revealed when the boat bay opens
... somebody calculated on a dead zone? WRONG!
Just that the door will need to be changed to 'up & over' for the tracking radar to work correctly https://i0.wp.com/navalnews.net/wp-cont ... C541&ssl=1

Thanks. Great!

I also think 20mm CIWS is just a "power point". Not sure a simple ISO container hold can provide enough stiffness against 20mm valcan reaction force. Also, anyway network, power, and cooking-water will be needed there.

But all other options are very interesting, especially for T26s, which has 12m long and 20m wide mission bay. Of course, River B2s and T31 will also be able to handle some of the units, although I'm afraid T31's alcove is filled with davits. So, it is the River B2 which is a good example to host these units.

# Although the movie is using "Iver Huitveldt like" vessel, its boat alcove size is clearly just a powerpoint. Neither IH-class nor T31 has 12.5m + 8 m alcoves. All images and CGs show that it is 10m+ 10m alcove.

[Timmymagic]

A lot of interest from foreign buyers?

Hard to see how serious these are at this stage. Is the interest in purchasing one of the 5 that have been ordered at a future date (and no doubt bargain price) as set out in the original strategy, or for additional units. Or even god forbid one of the 5 being built for the RN.

30 odd buyers sounds a little big....is that 30 seperate requests from a smaller number of countries? Thats pretty much the entire number of western aligned countries who would be capable (or want to) operate a T31 sized ship...just doesn't ring totally true, sounds a little like an inflated (but true in a round about, political, splitting hairs sort of way..) number...

[Defiance]

Probably PR spin combining all services which have asked for info on Type 31, spanning from serious buyers to 'send us the brochure in the post'

[Ron5]

One of them is from me. Never got a reply tho

[RichardIC]

Probably PR spin combining all services which have asked for info on Type 31, spanning from serious buyers to 'send us the brochure in the post'

I've assumed the briefing was held on either Teams or Zoom, and asked if there was a recording available - mainly to see if there's any additional info to be extracted from the Q&A.

Did get a prompt reply to say it wasn't recorded which I'm not totally sure I believe.

[serge750]

They forgot the decimal point

3.0

[Jensy]

Some updates from the folks over at Amalgam on their 1:72 Type 31 model. Modularity in a box:

[bobp]

Some updates from the folks over at Amalgam on their Type 31 model. Modularity in a box:

Bet that cost a few pennies.

[Poiuytrewq]

Perfect.

Hopefully HMG go for the variant with the Mk45, 16 VLS, 8x NSM and 2x Phalanx.

Yeah I know.....

[Ron5]

Some updates from the folks over at Amalgam on their Type 31 model. Modularity in a box:

Bet that cost a few pennies.

Big too!

Curious what the configuration looks like with four 76mm guns!

[Ron5]

Perfect.

Hopefully HMG go for the variant with the Mk45, 16 VLS, 8x NSM and 2x Phalanx.

Yeah I know.....

So you don't want the millennium guns & 24 CAMM?? Picky.

[Poiuytrewq]

So you don't want the millennium guns & 24 CAMM??

Didn't see the need with 64 quad packed CAMM.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Curious what the configuration looks like with four 76mm guns!

Like the Italian ships + one more on the top of the helo hangar
... no mag for that one, sorry

[Lord Jim]

That would be the non deck penetrating version of the 76mm developed for just that type of installation. would work on the Rivers as well.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Uhmm, River does accommodate deck penetrating guns.

For T31, how about 4 57 mm guns all with guided round, Alamo and MADFIRES. Will be very impressive close-in fire power negating most of the “fast boat swarm” and “drones swarm” attack.

[Poiuytrewq]

For T31, how about 4 57 mm guns all with guided round, Alamo and MADFIRES. Will be very impressive close-in fire power negating most of the “fast boat swarm” and “drones swarm” attack.

It would but it would also be a one trick pony.

If the Mk45 plus double phalanx backed up by 30mm's/miniguns is no longer sufficient then where does this leave the T26?

[donald_of_tokyo]

If the Mk45 plus double phalanx backed up by 30mm's/miniguns is no longer sufficient then where does this leave the T26?

I guess T26 will ALSO use the 48 CAMMs for such threats. Also in 10 years future, Phalanx will be replaced with some Laser?

In addition, I understand T31 will be more exposed to such gray zone attack in littoral environment at peacetime, to which a long range countermeasure will be useless because of ROE, while T26 is more for real war in the blue water, in which case neutralizing such threat in long distance will be important.