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Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
51
11%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
13
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
116
26%
An LCS-like modular ship
20
4%
A modernised Type 23
20
4%
A Type 26-lite
65
14%
Less than 5 hulls
20
4%
5 hulls
60
13%
More than 5 hulls
88
19%
 
Total votes: 453

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shark bait
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Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 23 Nov 2015, 16:18

Edit by The Armchair Soldier:

Please Read Before Posting:
To prevent important news items from being bogged down by general discussion, we have decided to split this topic. This topic will now be used for news only. You are encouraged to post news in this thread - as well as discuss it - but please do not allow your discussions to meander onto other topics and keep speculation to a minimum.

For general discussion, please use the newly-created Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion topic. Within that topic, you may discuss the Type 31 more broadly, as well as the current and future escort fleet in general.

Please Private Message an administrator if you need further clarification on these changes.

_________________________________________________________________

Original post by shark bait:

The type 99 frigate.......... The mystery new frigates! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby OevetS » 23 Nov 2015, 16:32

"We will maintain one of the most capable anti-submarine
fleets in the world with the introduction of eight advanced Type 26 Global Combat
Ships, which will start to replace our current Type 23 frigates in their anti-submarine
role. We will maintain our fleet of 19 frigates and destroyers. We will also launch
a concept study and then design and build a new class of lighter, flexible general
purpose frigates so that by the 2030s we can further increase the total number
of frigates and destroyers. These general purpose frigates are also likely to offer
increased export potential. We will buy two further new Offshore Patrol Vessels,
increasing the Royal Navy’s ability to defend UK interests at home and abroad"

So from that i understand that they will design a new frigate!!, if this just about saving money, then why not just take a design of the shelve and modify it, else it is just going to cost more than building the 5 type 26's where losing.

More OPV's?? what for? the only thing i can think of is to calm the SNP over job cuts.

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby shark bait » 23 Nov 2015, 16:34

OevetS wrote:So from that i understand that they will design a new frigate!!, if this just about saving money, then why not just take a design of the shelve and modify it, else it is just going to cost more than building the 5 type 26's where losing.


How about that fancy T26 Design??
Agree that a new design just for 5 ships seems counter productive.

That paragraph is very confusing...
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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 23 Nov 2015, 16:44

David Cameron just said the new lighter frigate will allow us to have more than 19 frigates and destroyers.

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Re: Future Light Frigate

Postby SKB » 23 Nov 2015, 16:48

Image
^ No "Light Frigate" images exist yet.

Introduction
Announced following the 2015 SDSR, the "Light Frigate" is a new type of cheaper general purpose light frigates intended to supplement the eight T26 Frigates also announced for purchase in the 2015 SDSR. Five "Light Frigates" are to be initially ordered and will bring the Royal Navy's frigate fleet up to a minimum number of thirteen by the 2030's, eventually replacing the thirteen Type 23 fleet on a one-for one basis. The "Light Frigate" is also aimed for foreign export.

2015 Strategic Defence & Security Review (SDSR)
In the 2015 SDSR, David Cameron stated:

"We will maintain one of the most capable anti-submarine fleets in the world with the introduction of eight advanced Type 26 Global Combat Ships, which will start to replace our current Type 23 frigates in their anti-submarine role. We will maintain our fleet of 19 frigates and destroyers. We will also launch a concept study and then design and build a new class of lighter, flexible general purpose frigates so that by the 2030s we can further increase the total number of frigates and destroyers. These general purpose frigates are also likely to offer increased export potential...."

More information to follow.

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby SDL » 23 Nov 2015, 16:48

From what I know of the initial variants list for the T26 design... I would be very shocked if the new class isn't one/both of the two discarded variants.

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby Wrekin762 » 23 Nov 2015, 16:49

shark bait wrote:Agree that a new design just for 5 ships seems counter productive.


If it truly is going to be something smaller and not just a reconfigured GCS, I'd say their strategy is investing in designing a frigate that's more marketable to smaller foreign navies than a large frigate like Type 26 is.

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby Lugzy » 23 Nov 2015, 16:51

Can't see them starting from scratch with a totally new design tbh , more of a redesigned type 26 using the same hull sharing common features but maybe a slight step down in capabilities , probably keeping its size to accommodate future upgrades and operations/mission options , plus keeping its ability to opperate world wide.

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby shark bait » 23 Nov 2015, 16:54

The Armchair Soldier wrote:David Cameron just said the new lighter frigate will allow us to have more than 19 frigates and destroyers.


If that is the case I will welcome the horrible light frigates with welcome arms. As long as they are not a replacement for real escorts.

Either way this will be happening around the 2030 mark when Dave and George will be sunning them selves in florida, so I dont think we can take it as gospel yet. Its an interesting concept non the less.
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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby OevetS » 23 Nov 2015, 16:56

Wrekin762 wrote:
shark bait wrote:Agree that a new design just for 5 ships seems counter productive.


If it truly is going to be something smaller and not just a reconfigured GCS, I'd say it's an investment in designing a frigate that's more marketable to smaller foreign navies than a large frigate like Type 26 is.


Great idea designing a new cheaper frigate and making it more marketable to other nations , but you can not assume that anyone would buy it, and if they do not then that directly effects our numbers in service. For me the cutting of type 26's numbers is a cost cutting measure, the announcement of another type of frigate is just a sop nothing more.

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Re: "Light Frigate" (RN)

Postby Old RN » 23 Nov 2015, 16:59

Is that a bit like the Type 21s being ordered to provide the "low" to the Type 22 being the "high"?

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby OevetS » 23 Nov 2015, 16:59

Here is and interesting graphic from the SDSR https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... b_only.pdf

Image

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby hovematlot » 23 Nov 2015, 17:09

How light is light? Could range from being a stripped down T26, the general purpose variant that has always been mooted, or down to the Black Swan concept. Still if it means ordering them in greater numbers than 5 can't be all bad. Do we really need a ship as large as a WWII cruiser going general piracy ops or WIGS?

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Re: Type 99 frigate

Postby shark bait » 23 Nov 2015, 17:12

hovematlot wrote:How light is light? Could range from being a stripped down T26, the general purpose variant that has always been mooted, or down to the Black Swan concept. Still if it means ordering them in greater numbers than 5 can't be all bad. Do we really need a ship as large as a WWII cruiser going general piracy ops or WIGS?



AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH - Light frigate and black swan in one comment. This is bad. :x
Joking of course


My problem is we shouldnt be building ships for a spesific role. Ship move. They can encounter anyting. They can go anywhere. There for they should be able to do everthing.
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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby SKB » 23 Nov 2015, 17:12

"Light" as in 'a rowing boat and a sonar buoy' towed on a bit of string?! :twisted: ;)

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby WhitestElephant » 23 Nov 2015, 18:09

Both Cameron and the SDSR said "lighter" not "light". This is important.
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby RichardIC » 23 Nov 2015, 18:17

The guest summariser on Forces TV - whose name I completely missed - said it would be based on the same hull as T26 and there have been several references to T26-Lite.

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby Dahedd » 23 Nov 2015, 18:57

So possibly a T26 light. built without the strike length cells fitted? Less advanced Mast & reduced ASW gear but an increase in gear for Constabulary roles? More rhibs, uavs? Better for chasing pirates & druggies? But still space for Merlins and fitted with Sea Ceptor?

That or one of the BMT Venator class concepts (110) or the Black Swan "corvette"

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby R686 » 23 Nov 2015, 19:26

This will get NZ attention no doubt since they have started to move back to UK systems

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 23 Nov 2015, 19:27

R686 wrote:This will get NZ attention no doubt since they have started to move back to UK systems
The PM did mention that they would be of interest to Australia and (IIRC) New Zealand, too.

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby R686 » 23 Nov 2015, 19:39

The Armchair Soldier wrote:
R686 wrote:This will get NZ attention no doubt since they have started to move back to UK systems
The PM did mention that they would be of interest to Australia and (IIRC) New Zealand, too.


You might be right there, all depends on size when he says light. We were looking at T26 with CEFAR but depending on size it may just might make an Offshore Combat Vessel

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby Ron5 » 23 Nov 2015, 21:24

"Light" is Treasury speak for "cheap". With some rather weak justification, they equate weight to cost. So they insist on the lightest ship possible.

Of course the last time that happened to any great degree, the T-42's were trimmed to such a point they were lousy sea keepers and lost their CIWS. The first was inconvenient, the second cost lives. But hey, the Treasury was happy.

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Re: Future Light Frigate (type 99)

Postby Ron5 » 23 Nov 2015, 21:27

Dahedd wrote:So possibly a T26 light. built without the strike length cells fitted? Less advanced Mast & reduced ASW gear but an increase in gear for Constabulary roles? More rhibs, uavs? Better for chasing pirates & druggies? But still space for Merlins and fitted with Sea Ceptor?

That or one of the BMT Venator class concepts (110) or the Black Swan "corvette"


Doubt if that's enough to make the T-26's cheap enough. Think very lean manning and what would have to go. Maybe no gas turbine, no ASW, tiny popgun, no Mk 41, etc etc.

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Re: Future Light Frigate

Postby Halidon » 24 Nov 2015, 00:23

Maybe it's time to revive the old NF90 concept of joint development, ok that's a lot to ask for but at least the RN and USN could look at a new smaller affordable multirole vessel together.

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Re: Future Light Frigate

Postby SKB » 24 Nov 2015, 01:12

If you think about it, the Light Frigate is aimed at export sales, as its cheaper, lighter and presumably simpler. Foreign navies looking to the RN's example of using it might be more persuaded to purchase the Light Frigate and tailor it specifically for their own needs, rather than purchasing a costlier and less flexible T26 which may excede their requirements. Might be a good bit of business for whoever wins the build contracts.... (betcha its BAE) ;)


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