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Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby R686 » 23 Jan 2017, 04:54

Don't understand why they think they need to cover it up from the US, sounds like someone's letting their imagination run wild in the media.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 23 Jan 2017, 07:43

Only more speculation, but former Rear Admiral Chris Parry presents a reasonable explanation, suggesting the UK and USA are using test launches these days to also experiment with the missile at its performance limits, collecting data to help inform a Trident missile replacement.
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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby Defiance » 23 Jan 2017, 08:08

Interesting idea, suppose the UK has a hand in the CMC so it may have some influence in what'll be used to fill them.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 23 Jan 2017, 08:49

R686 wrote:sounds like someone's letting their imagination run wild in the media.


I agree, but would develop that further: The Times also published a rehash of what they had missed out on earlier (they didnt want to copy an army piece by another newspaper at the time; Daily Flail of all things, if my memory serves).
- so the Editor-in-Chief knew this was going to come into focus in the Parliament and told the staff to brush up the image (of The Times keeping up with defence matters)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 25 Jan 2017, 12:45

Just watched PMQ's, the Trident misfiring wasn't mentioned at all!

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jan 2017, 13:35

SKB wrote:the Trident misfiring wasn't mentioned at all!


The airheads luckily have some researchers to do their job for them... the advice must have been: Do not embarrass yourself

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 25 Jan 2017, 14:01

Of course it wasn't, they don't care about the effectiveness of trident, they we're just using the media to push their own separate 'no-nukes' campaign.
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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby Billybrick » 27 Apr 2017, 20:26

Just a thought but I wonder if the RN have ever considered converting one of the vanguards Into something similar to the Ohio class by removing the nukes and replacing with 100 plus TLAM and a special forces pod, I'm sure we could still have one vanguard continuely at sea and then one guided missile sub too

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby Smokey » 27 Apr 2017, 21:04

Astute class can be fitted with the swimmer pod and also has a tomahawk capability.

Convert an SSBN into an SSGN and you lose the continuous at sea capability when a Vanguard class goes through an extensive refit.

1x just returned from patrol
1x on patrol
1x working up for the next patrol
1x in reserve/refit.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 29 Apr 2017, 10:05

I struggle to see the value of a sub filled with 100 missiles, it doesn't sound usable.

We already have Astute, and the RAF to deliver cruise missiles, soon add the T26 and I think we have it covered.
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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby zanahoria » 01 Jul 2017, 22:26

I am supportive of the nuclear deterrent, for pretty much all of the reasons that have been articulated by other members of this forum.

However, until a few months ago, I had no idea that Michael Portillo (a former UK conservative minister for defence) had spoken out strongly against it.

What flummoxed me was that not only would he have been up to speed with the arguments for the the deterrent, but also his position at the MOD would have furnished him with information not available to the rest of us - and despite all of this, he thinks it is a waste of money. Is he right?

Below is a transcript of what he said:

Speaking on BBC This Week Portillo said:

"A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point.
Our independent nuclear deterrent is not independent and doesn't constitute a deterrent..."
"I mean, Britain now has a minute army and a microscopic navy. And as these have become smaller so the status symbol of having nuclear weapons becomes more important, at least to some people.

"Our independent nuclear deterrent is not independent and doesn't constitute a deterrent against anybody that we regard as an enemy. It is a waste of money and it is a diversion of funds that might otherwise be spent on perfectly useful and useable weapons and troops. But some people have not caught up with this reality."

Apologies if this is the wrong thread (mods feel free to move to a more appropriate location).

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby Smokey » 01 Jul 2017, 23:08

The other four permanent members of the UNSC have nuclear weapons. It would be bizarre for the U.K. to not do the same. If we get rid of our deterrent you will see a rise in other nations claiming we should no longer be a permanent member (IMO).

Our deterrent is independent as the warheads are produced domestically (even though we buy the missiles from the U.S.).

Their targetting and launch command is a U.K. sovereign capability.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby zanahoria » 02 Jul 2017, 00:55

Thanks for the reply. I guess he's just plain wrong, then!

Maybe his point regarding the (perceived lack of) independence of the system was more to do with the dependence on the US for the supply of technical support and the missiles themselves, as opposed to the independence of deciding when & where to use them.

It's troubling that he would have known everything that you have said, but would nevertheless still come to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it. I still don't get why! But thanks again anyway :)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby WhiteWhale » 02 Jul 2017, 01:14

shark bait wrote:I struggle to see the value of a sub filled with 100 missiles, it doesn't sound usable.

We already have Astute, and the RAF to deliver cruise missiles, soon add the T26 and I think we have it covered.


Especially when it would only have 5 or 6 missiles on board at any given time.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby LordJim » 02 Jul 2017, 05:34

Its been said before, but the money for building and running the CASD should NOT come from the defence budget. it is not a military tool but a political one so maybe to Foreign Office should pay for it.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby Smokey » 02 Jul 2017, 08:22

zanahoria wrote:I guess he's just plain wrong, then!


Just a different point of view.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby jedibeeftrix » 02 Jul 2017, 10:30

Independence or operation, not of acquisition:

https://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2010 ... quisition/

For this compromise our deterrent cost nearly half that the french pay for theirs.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby zanahoria » 02 Jul 2017, 14:13

Thanks for the link.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby KyleG » 05 Aug 2017, 14:10

A rarely seen view of HMS Vanguard with the missile compartment open, courtesy of the new Google Earth image update.

Image

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 14 Aug 2017, 13:36

good find! I'm surprised to see it's not all covered, everything seems to get wrapped in plastic these days.
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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby R686 » 04 Oct 2017, 07:02

downsizer wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-41474888

Naughty, naughty.... :oops:


I'm Army orientated but.........

You know I can't really see what the big deal is here, as long as they keep it professional whilst on board and in the work environment what they do after hours away from there commitments who gives a flying fu#k, once they form a de-facto/ married relationship seperate them then.


But writing this reminded me of this...

There is nothing on this earth sexier, believe me, gentlemen, than a woman you have to salute in the morning. Promote 'em all, I say, 'cause this is true: if you haven't gotten a blowjob from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby downsizer » 04 Oct 2017, 08:52

Having seen the CoC compromised by personal relationships first hand, I would say it is a big deal.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby indeid » 04 Oct 2017, 09:06

downsizer wrote:Having seen the CoC compromised by personal relationships first hand, I would say it is a big deal.


Agreed, outside of each other's CoC then crack on, but as a CO I can't imagine what he was thinking. Ok, maybe I can........

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Postby cockneyjock1974 » 04 Oct 2017, 09:51

Looks like "open outer doors" took on a whole new meaning on that boat :twisted:


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