UK Defence Forum

SW1 wrote:Also worth noting the French operate 3 operational rafale sqns to support there naval air wing we intend to operate 2 at this time.

However one will have OCU as part of its day to day duties so what we are seeing on this current deployment with 30 jets is CDG in surge with 2.5 sqn's little or no ASW aircraft and 4 AEW aircraft

So the MN has recently acquired 2 x additional Hawkeyes have they?

A simple the French only have 2 AEW would have been good enough but clearly you needed to get a tissue out but as the french have 3 Hawkeye we are both wrong

How does CROWSNEST compare to the current version of the Hawkeye. Can the former transfer its intel via datalinks to the vessels in the Carrier Group as well as the F-35s and other aircraft?

What the RAF bods here are missing is the genuine concern that RAF standards will be applied to F-35B deployments and not RN.

And that F-35B's were specifically justified and acquired to operate from the carriers.

Fly Navy.

Lord Jim wrote:How does CROWSNEST compare to the current version of the Hawkeye. Can the former transfer its intel via datalinks to the vessels in the Carrier Group as well as the F-35s and other aircraft?

a) inferior in some regards, superior in other b) yes.

Ron5 wrote:What the RAF bods here are missing is the genuine concern that RAF standards will be applied to F-35B deployments and not RN.

What standards mate? Genuinely interested in what you mean, or is it just more spineless sniping?

Lord Jim wrote:How does CROWSNEST compare to the current version of the Hawkeye. Can the former transfer its intel via datalinks to the vessels in the Carrier Group as well as the F-35s and other aircraft?

The old Sea-King AEW had Link 16 so I should hope the new platform will have this as a base line

There was a wonderful writeup by someone on the exact manpower rest and redeploy requirements of having a few Crowsnest Helos vs a couple E-2s elsewhere not long ago. Extremely detailed, good in thought (at least seemingly) that showed the difference isn't that gigantic.

E-2 clearly has speed, range, endurance per launch, but only two platforms doesn't give it a lot of robustness in terms of maintenance losses or (worse) a combat loss. However due to its longer missions, if kept stable they can maintain good coverage.

Crowsnest is more flexible in its output but required more aircraft up and about to perform the same duty. Thankfully you can fit more aircraft, and exchange kits if you really need to, or launch/repair it from other vessels.

Swings and roundabouts. In the end what it came to is that E-2 has a greater offensive AEW capability due to the range/speed, but that Crowsnest has a greater depth and flexibility. If the CdG were in refit, then the French would lose all AEW entirely.

Of course, this comparison goes out the window if you consider 4 E-2s off a Nimitz/Ford, but thats outwith the scope of the comparison.

In short - Not that big a difference on the scale the UK/French work at, just differing flavours. UK's solution much more defensive though.

Good progress.

Could a 3rd QEC now be a real possibility for India?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... -agreement

India is focusing entirely on a 'built in India' policy, probably due to the rise in nationalism and how much of a disaster the previous CV purchase was/is.

The UK could certainly sell design, engineering details, knoweldge and expertise but India will not be buying a UK made CV. Providing the next Gov doesn't sell of one of the current pair for a tenner anyway.

Poiuytrewq wrote:Good progress.

Could a 3rd QEC now be a real possibility for India?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... -agreement

I really do hope so, does tie in with the initial proposed spec for IAC 2 (65000t, conventional powered ) plus with the experience gained from the IAC 1 program/build ( I read that she is starting sea trials next year? ) may tie in well if they buy the plans V soon then start construction from the same yard as IAC 1.

Didn't India purchase rafale jets recently for delivery soon? perhaps they could repurpose these for the IAC 2 (QEC derivative hopefully ) CATOBAR carrier ?? or are they the land only version ?

WhiteWhale wrote:India is focusing entirely on a 'built in India' policy, probably due to the rise in nationalism and how much of a disaster the previous CV purchase was/is.

So, they could take it to an entirely new level of ineptitude with their DRDO (Defense Research Development Organization).
A greater level of incompetence, meddling & beaureacracy has not yet been discovered...

This may sound a bit selfish but a part of me hopes we don't sell the plans to anyone, the design is unique to the Royal Navy and I think it gives the ships an identity that other nations don’t have.

Look at this way ( if they buy the plans ) it will most likely be what the RN gold plated version would of been CATOBAR, 30+ jets, Hawkeye's 4 x CIWS, SAM....not that I'm knocking our QEC with F35b. oh to have more money !

Perhaps they want to buy a 3rd Carrier and a QEC could be it. They have bought uk built carriers before, so just a faint possibility it could be built at Rosyth?

It's also more than a remote possibility that it could be QE or PoW

Jdam wrote:This may sound a bit selfish but a part of me hopes we don't sell the plans to anyone, the design is unique to the Royal Navy and I think it gives the ships an identity that other nations don’t have.

We already sold them to the French in 2006...

Pongoglo wrote:It's also more than a remote possibility that it could be QE or PoW

Lalalalalalalalalaala not listening!

As long as we can have 2 x Cavour's style carriers to replace POW, Albion & Bulwark ....bet that wont happen

Pongoglo wrote:It's also more than a remote possibility that it could be QE or PoW

When India order 40 or 50 F35b's I will start to get worried.

Until then.....

They could initially put arrester gear on her & other mods and use her for the Mig 29k and their indigenous light plane in STOBAR mod until they sort out a full CATOBAR conversion and the planes they will operate...but I really think it's such a low chance of selling one of the carriers, i'm sure after IAC 1 they will definatly want to build another carrier to keep up with the made in india tag.

Fingers crossed !!!

We could just sell them our F35's too It's the British way.

I really hope the politicians aren't reading this ! or them short term treasury gits

Ideal candidates to be press ganged.

Digger22 wrote:We could just sell them our F35's too It's the British way.

The Indian requirement would be greater than the number we have...