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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Lord Jim
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 14 Apr 2019, 18:27

The last part is the "Holy Grail" capability desired by Politicians, and the domain only of nations that are still world powers.

topman
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby topman » 14 Apr 2019, 18:41

Repulse wrote:Understand, but the value of the F35b is to fly from the CVFs.


I say it's value is that it can operate from the carrier not that it must.

SW1
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 14 Apr 2019, 18:48

Repulse wrote:Agreed, but the French seem to be able to regularly operate a fleet of 24 Rafales from a fleet of 42.


They don’t unless you count once in 20 years as regular ok

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Repulse
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Repulse » 14 Apr 2019, 22:22

SW1 wrote:
Repulse wrote:Agreed, but the French seem to be able to regularly operate a fleet of 24 Rafales from a fleet of 42.


They don’t unless you count once in 20 years as regular ok


They did just that in 2015 and 2016 when launching air attacks in Syria and hit 30 Rafales in recent trials.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

SW1
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 14 Apr 2019, 22:30

Repulse wrote:
SW1 wrote:
Repulse wrote:Agreed, but the French seem to be able to regularly operate a fleet of 24 Rafales from a fleet of 42.


They don’t unless you count once in 20 years as regular ok


They did just that in 2015 and 2016 when launching air attacks in Syria and hit 30 Rafales in recent trials.


They didn’t 18 rafale in 2015 for the first time ever and 24 in 2016 for a 2 month deployment specifically in response to the Paris terror attacks. Also worth noting the French operate 3 operational rafale sqns to support there naval air wing we intend to operate 2 at this time.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 15 Apr 2019, 11:04

SW1 wrote:Also worth noting the French operate 3 operational rafale sqns to support there naval air wing we intend to operate 2 at this time.


However one will have OCU as part of its day to day duties so what we are seeing on this current deployment with 30 jets is CDG in surge with 2.5 sqn's little or no ASW aircraft and 4 AEW aircraft

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 15 Apr 2019, 16:03

So the MN has recently acquired 2 x additional Hawkeyes have they?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 15 Apr 2019, 16:10

A simple the French only have 2 AEW would have been good enough but clearly you needed to get a tissue out but as the french have 3 Hawkeye we are both wrong

Lord Jim
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 15 Apr 2019, 16:29

How does CROWSNEST compare to the current version of the Hawkeye. Can the former transfer its intel via datalinks to the vessels in the Carrier Group as well as the F-35s and other aircraft?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 15 Apr 2019, 19:20

What the RAF bods here are missing is the genuine concern that RAF standards will be applied to F-35B deployments and not RN.

And that F-35B's were specifically justified and acquired to operate from the carriers.

Fly Navy.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 15 Apr 2019, 19:21

Lord Jim wrote:How does CROWSNEST compare to the current version of the Hawkeye. Can the former transfer its intel via datalinks to the vessels in the Carrier Group as well as the F-35s and other aircraft?


a) inferior in some regards, superior in other b) yes.

downsizer
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby downsizer » 15 Apr 2019, 19:36

Ron5 wrote:What the RAF bods here are missing is the genuine concern that RAF standards will be applied to F-35B deployments and not RN.


What standards mate? Genuinely interested in what you mean, or is it just more spineless sniping?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 16 Apr 2019, 08:28

Lord Jim wrote:How does CROWSNEST compare to the current version of the Hawkeye. Can the former transfer its intel via datalinks to the vessels in the Carrier Group as well as the F-35s and other aircraft?


The old Sea-King AEW had Link 16 so I should hope the new platform will have this as a base line

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RetroSicotte » 16 Apr 2019, 09:02

There was a wonderful writeup by someone on the exact manpower rest and redeploy requirements of having a few Crowsnest Helos vs a couple E-2s elsewhere not long ago. Extremely detailed, good in thought (at least seemingly) that showed the difference isn't that gigantic.

E-2 clearly has speed, range, endurance per launch, but only two platforms doesn't give it a lot of robustness in terms of maintenance losses or (worse) a combat loss. However due to its longer missions, if kept stable they can maintain good coverage.

Crowsnest is more flexible in its output but required more aircraft up and about to perform the same duty. Thankfully you can fit more aircraft, and exchange kits if you really need to, or launch/repair it from other vessels.

Swings and roundabouts. In the end what it came to is that E-2 has a greater offensive AEW capability due to the range/speed, but that Crowsnest has a greater depth and flexibility. If the CdG were in refit, then the French would lose all AEW entirely.

Of course, this comparison goes out the window if you consider 4 E-2s off a Nimitz/Ford, but thats outwith the scope of the comparison.

In short - Not that big a difference on the scale the UK/French work at, just differing flavours. UK's solution much more defensive though.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 16 Apr 2019, 13:41

Good progress.

Could a 3rd QEC now be a real possibility for India?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... -agreement

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby WhiteWhale » 16 Apr 2019, 19:34

India is focusing entirely on a 'built in India' policy, probably due to the rise in nationalism and how much of a disaster the previous CV purchase was/is.

The UK could certainly sell design, engineering details, knoweldge and expertise but India will not be buying a UK made CV. Providing the next Gov doesn't sell of one of the current pair for a tenner anyway.

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby serge750 » 16 Apr 2019, 20:29

Poiuytrewq wrote:Good progress.

Could a 3rd QEC now be a real possibility for India?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... -agreement


I really do hope so, does tie in with the initial proposed spec for IAC 2 (65000t, conventional powered ) plus with the experience gained from the IAC 1 program/build ( I read that she is starting sea trials next year? ) may tie in well if they buy the plans V soon then start construction from the same yard as IAC 1.

Didn't India purchase rafale jets recently for delivery soon? perhaps they could repurpose these for the IAC 2 (QEC derivative hopefully ) CATOBAR carrier ?? or are they the land only version ?

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swoop
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby swoop » 18 Apr 2019, 10:15

WhiteWhale wrote:India is focusing entirely on a 'built in India' policy, probably due to the rise in nationalism and how much of a disaster the previous CV purchase was/is.

So, they could take it to an entirely new level of ineptitude with their DRDO (Defense Research Development Organization).
A greater level of incompetence, meddling & beaureacracy has not yet been discovered...

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Jdam » 18 Apr 2019, 18:55

This may sound a bit selfish but a part of me hopes we don't sell the plans to anyone, the design is unique to the Royal Navy and I think it gives the ships an identity that other nations don’t have.

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby serge750 » 18 Apr 2019, 19:38

Look at this way ( if they buy the plans ) it will most likely be what the RN gold plated version would of been CATOBAR, 30+ jets, Hawkeye's 4 x CIWS, SAM....not that I'm knocking our QEC with F35b. oh to have more money !

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 19 Apr 2019, 00:51

Perhaps they want to buy a 3rd Carrier and a QEC could be it. They have bought uk built carriers before, so just a faint possibility it could be built at Rosyth?

Pongoglo
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Pongoglo » 19 Apr 2019, 16:18

It's also more than a remote possibility that it could be QE or PoW :oops:

Timmymagic
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 19 Apr 2019, 16:49

Jdam wrote:This may sound a bit selfish but a part of me hopes we don't sell the plans to anyone, the design is unique to the Royal Navy and I think it gives the ships an identity that other nations don’t have.


We already sold them to the French in 2006...

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby serge750 » 19 Apr 2019, 19:04

Pongoglo wrote:It's also more than a remote possibility that it could be QE or PoW :oops:


Lalalalalalalalalaala not listening! :lolno: :lolno: :lolno:

As long as we can have 2 x Cavour's style carriers to replace POW, Albion & Bulwark ....bet that wont happen

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 19 Apr 2019, 19:51

Pongoglo wrote:It's also more than a remote possibility that it could be QE or PoW :oops:
When India order 40 or 50 F35b's I will start to get worried.

Until then.....

:thumbup:


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