Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

seaspear wrote:
Abit of fun here
It is the Collins class SSK aiming at JMSDF Asagiri-class DD. Because it has 2d radar, it is one of the first 4 hulls and not the later 4. Asagiri DD is a early 1990s ASW escort with passive TASS. If Collins cannot beat them, it will be a big problem for the SSK. Asagiri DD is not capable of overwhelming modern SSK in singleton. JMSDF is only recently introducing active-passive TASS.

Another ship in the video is FFG-7 class, presumably RAN Adelaide class. It even not has a TASS, but just a hull sonar. Very limited change such escort can hunt SSK. No surprise.

It will be more an issue that,
- if the Collins class's torpedo can hit Asagiri DD or Adelaide FFG, overcoming the soft kill (although Asagiri has old anti-torpedo decoy, new DDs have better ones)
- and also if the SSK can escape from the swarming P-3C and SH60 to hunt them.

I think, SSKs can sometimes sink CV (at least), sneaking into the CVTF ASW. But, I am not sure how frequent it is.

Anyway, CAPTAS-pinging escorts wandering around the CVTF will be nice. Also, having a few pinging Merlins at air "24hours a day/7days a week" will also be important. SSK will surely detect ASW escort from 100 miles away (because they are pinging), but may find difficulty to reach near. As torpedo is very slow, they need to go near the enemy, especially to avoid soft kill.

This is my understanding. (just accumulating many comments around from RN, Italian navy and JMSDF guy's interview. Just impression, though, I agree)

seaspear
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by seaspear »

What happens if there is more than one submarine firing a multitude of torpedos ,I believe it was discussed that the Darings could not be fitted with the Captas 4 but possibly Captas 2 ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Caribbean »

seaspear wrote:What happens if there is more than one submarine firing a multitude of torpedos
Hope the decoys work? I guess that's what SSTD is there for.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

seaspear wrote:What happens if there is more than one submarine firing a multitude of torpedos ,I believe it was discussed that the Darings could not be fitted with the Captas 4 but possibly Captas 2 ?
Not sure. But if the CVTF allowed "a few" SSK to come within there vicinity, it will be very difficult to defend the CVF.

CAPTAS-4 and CAPTAS-4CI differs a lot. I will post it in escort thread now. In short, CAPTAS-2 needs only 30% of the foot print of CAPTAS-4. But, CAPTAS-4 CI also needs "only" 54% of CAPTAS-4.

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Halidon
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Halidon »

seaspear wrote:https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-b ... rier-20503
also in RIMPAC 2000 H.M.A.S Waller had a very successful excercise Being in the same position to do the U.S.S Abraham Lincoln and a couple of LHD,S and a nuclear sub
In 2016 a Chinese submarine surfaced in the middle of a U.S.N fleet near the Ronald Reagan off Okinawa providing a surprise
I have not heard that the French navy uses the Mistral with a top speed of 20 knots to supply the asw component to protect its carrier
The exercise examples and the instances of uninvited nations "popping up" in/around carrier group ops are only superficially similar.

Exercises are built around scenarios, organizers frequently hand out advantages and handicaps as well as craft rules and circumstances to set specific challenges. It's for those reasons that, while the scoreboard matters, I tend to dislike when people use that scoreboard as their only gauge of results or claim that only the "winning" side of the exercise can feel good about it.

The pop-ups are difficult to gauge because there's so much often left unstated about what happened. Was the group acting in accordance with proper ASW doctrine and giving the infiltrator a challenge? Or, due to failures in the group or orders from above, were they steaming along fat, dumb, and happy? There's no question the pop-ups can be embarrassing, but they may point to leadership and training problems more than equipment or doctrine failures.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Pongoglo »

bobp wrote:What about other weapons, I though we were getting a couple of 30mm cannons as well.
Four....

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bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

Pongoglo wrote:Four....
Hopefully that will be enough coupled with the Phalanx. Lets hope they never get tested for real. There has been a lot of talk about QE going to Chinese waters, but I don't think that will be soon, as this year it has to complete F35 trials plus a period in dry dock.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ThunderPants »

What has anything in the last page have to do with the queen Elizabeth???

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by RetroSicotte »

seaspear wrote:I haven't found any reports of the Mistral acting as asw support it doesn't mean it doesn't happen of course ,and what is the downtime for maintenance after every flight hour of the frigate helicopter ? and would the helicopters of the two frigates be considered sufficient by the R.N to protect its carriers
When have they ever deployed against submarines to need to do it?

The Mistrals have better things to be doing than handling that role when they're not needed to.

seaspear
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by seaspear »

I believe your earlier post inferred the Mistral to carry the asw component for the carrier group

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swoop
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by swoop »

SKB wrote:
QE Aft Phalanx.PNG
Rather interesting that the tents are back over the main landing spots for the Dave-B's.

It could get interesting if the thermal paint isn't up to the task...

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Gabriele
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Gabriele »

From the reports it was the deck lightning that did not fully satisfy. Making some changes to that.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by seaspear »

ThunderPants wrote:What has anything in the last page have to do with the queen Elizabeth???
What I was trying to raise in discussion was the ability of submarines to present a threat to modern aircraft carriers ,and that submarines in their own way are as stealthy as any flying threat and can get a lot closer than stealth aircraft , it does not make sense for an argument to crowd the aircraft carrier with the F35 to "protect itself " if this is at the expense of aircraft that protect it from a different and real threat

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

A short video that was broadcast live today, a Portsmouth Harbour boat tour....


(JJ Model Making) 18 Feb 2019

No Phalanx on the forward-port side or its crane there yet.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by sea_eagle »

seaspear wrote:Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such ,the cost to fly these types of aircraft could be significantly less than a manned aircraft for some duties ,
shark bait wrote:Short answer is no.

The RN had a couple of efforts to get a project going, but I don't think any of them got the funding needed. The best bet now would be to get working with the USMC on their drone project.
Jake1992 wrote:I’ve mentioned this on the LSS thread the USMC are currently looking at developing the Bell V-247, this is a tilt rotar drone based on the V-280. At the moment there are 2 variants planed and AEW format ( which I think would a better fit than crows nest ) this is planed to have a 24,000ft plus ceiling and an on station time if 12hrs so 3 of these could give a better 24hr cover age than the merlins while also free the merlins up.
Small update here:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/unmanne ... -carriers/
The US Air Force Chief Scientist in 2017 said that F-35 pilots will be able to control a small group of drones flying nearby from the aircraft cockpit in the air, performing sensing, reconnaissance and targeting functions.

With whatever results from Tempest being able to use swarming technology to control drones and the F-35 becoming capable of doing so, it is only logical that capability will come into use.
But as is often the case its' jam tomorrow :roll:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

US Air Force Chief Scientist in 2017 said
This was in 2016.
- of course, from micro-drones to an unmanned wingman there is quite a way to go
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Jensy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jensy »

During Defence Questions today in the Commons they discussed Phalanx and the potential for a fourth one from 34:20. Julian Lewis seems to have taken it as a new crusade:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... -questions

Few key points:

- They are only fitting two for the time being, with a third to be introduced towards the end of 2020.
- All three for PoW will be fitted in 2020.
- Lewis claims there are some spares knocking about.

Jensy

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Jensy wrote: Lewis claims there are some spares knocking about.
The latest count seems to be approaching 50 (all upgrades now complete?). I wonder if they are hoarding some for RFA ships... still to be built!
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Jensy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jensy »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Jensy wrote: Lewis claims there are some spares knocking about.
The latest count seems to be approaching 50 (all upgrades now complete?). I wonder if they are hoarding some for RFA ships... still to be built!
Intriguing! Maybe the carrier's might yet get a fourth.

That said, nobody tell the secretary of state. He'll be fitting half a dozen Phalanx on the roof of an Airlander to serve as our new airborne-anti ballistic missile defence system....

I assume we took the three off Ocean when she went South?

Jensy

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

Well, at least she did not "go west"!

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Qwerty »

HMS Prince of Wales is nearing completion.

Staff Move onboard and sea trials scheduled for September.

*Navy Lookout*

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Some interesting images of current progress on HMS Prince of Wales.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/hms-prince-of-wales

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by RAF>FAN »

Shame it looks like its sailed full speed into a concrete wall

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

Shame, but if she had, it is more than a possibility that there would have been an awful lot of high-tech "Flies" splattered on that wall. :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Good to hear that a forth Phalanx can be fitted to the QE's if threat level deemed severe enough to require it.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2 ... anxWeapons

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