UK Defence Forum

Has anyone got an update on CROWSNEST? Everything seems to have gone quite about the programme which is strange as I thought it would be trumpeted along with the F-35B when QE entered service.

shark bait wrote:Excellent, glad to see work to embed the USMC is progressing, the chances of seeing a 'full' Royal Navy carrier have skyrocketed.

2 squadron could still total only 12-15 F35s. Or at max, if they are full squadrons, maybe 20-24? Still only going to be between 1/3 to 2/3 full. Hopefully we can get 2 squadrons of our own on there in the not too distant future, whilst still being able to include half a squadron or so on the second carrier deploying after in commando carrier role.

That's why I wrote 'full', not the apostrophe.

Also lets not forget around 20 helicopters that will likely deploy with QE. Between that and 2 squadrons of F35 are more aircraft than the UK has deployed in one location in over a decade.

So a USMC F-35b Squadron is made up of 16 aircraft and as we know a UK squadron is 12. So a nice mix for her first outing would be

24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

Tempest414 wrote:24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

Can you imagine what that's going to look like?

It's going to be quite a sight

Poiuytrewq wrote:t's going to be quite a sight

Only the Merlins are 'salty dogs'... the rest will be hiding in the hangar?

shark bait wrote:That's why I wrote 'full', not the apostrophe.

Also lets not forget around 20 helicopters that will likely deploy with QE. Between that and 2 squadrons of F35 are more aircraft than the UK has deployed in one location in over a decade.

Fair enough, missed the quotations

Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such ,the cost to fly these types of aircraft could be significantly less than a manned aircraft for some duties ,
Because we have no idea of the size of these uav/drones its hard to suggest how many could be in supplement to the carriers manned complement of aircraft

Tempest414 wrote:

24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

More likely to be 28 - F35
14 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 5 AEW )
and just maybe 2 - MV22

Chinooks not likely to be aboard with an F35 load out of that sort of scale (unless our Chinooks gain powered folding rotor blades by then) and even then it is doubtful.

Maybe a couple of USMC CH53 if they have an F35 sqn on board?

seaspear wrote:Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such

Short answer is no.

The RN had a couple of efforts to get a project going, but I don't think any of them got the funding needed. The best bet now would be to get working with the USMC on their drone project. Reaper style operations from sovereign territory any where in the world is a massive boon for the carriers.

shark bait wrote:

seaspear wrote:Captain Kyd has said in the past of military drones flying off the carrier as inevitable , Is there a dedicated program for the design and introduction of such

Short answer is no.

The RN had a couple of efforts to get a project going, but I don't think any of them got the funding needed. The best bet now would be to get working with the USMC on their drone project. Reaper style operations from sovereign territory any where in the world is a massive boon for the carriers.

I’ve mentioned this on the LSS thread the USMC are currently looking at developing the Bell V-247, this is a tilt rotar drone based on the V-280. At the moment there are 2 variants planed and AEW format ( which I think would a better fit than crows nest ) this is planed to have a 24,000ft plus ceiling and an on station time if 12hrs so 3 of these could give a better 24hr cover age than the merlins while also free the merlins up.

The other format is an attack variant that is said to have very similar capability to reaper/protector

Scimitar54 wrote:

Tempest414 wrote:

24- F-35
12 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 4 AEW )
2 Chinook

More likely to be 28 - F35
14 - Merlin ( 9 ASW & 5 AEW )
and just maybe 2 - MV22

Chinooks not likely to be aboard with an F35 load out of that sort of scale (unless our Chinooks gain powered folding rotor blades by then) and even then it is doubtful.

28? You think there will be a full squadron of USMC and RAF/RN? Seems doubtful, I'd imagine that to avoid negative press they'd make sure that US F35s don't outnumber UK ones. I'd guess more like 12 UK and 8 US

It will be so good seeing her with a good size airwing, would love it if when she transits the Med and a meet up with CdeG and maybe Cavour could be arranged, looking forward to seeing a few PR shots.

Is it going to be 2020 or 2021?

I would of thought that a T23 & a T45 ( maybe 2? ) would be with her, maybe a US ship aswell?

26 UK Aircraft
18 US Aircraft

From what point of the compass is there a negative press in that?

Scimitar54 wrote:26 UK Aircraft
18 US Aircraft

From what point of the compass is there a negative press in that?

Oh trust me, they'll find it.

BRITAIN SO SHORT ON PLANES IT NEEDS AMERICAN ONES ON CARRIER

QUESTIONS ASKED AS MOD TRIES TO PRETEND U.S. JETS ARE BRITISH

SCANDAL AS LEAKY CARRIER NOW DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH PLANES

20 BILLION SPENT, AND WE NEED TO BEG THE U.S. TO PROTECT IT

Perhaps you would rather the deployment was postponed until 2023 or 2024, when we are scheduled to have the capability to embark two squadrons of F35B on board, That is, if the RAF agree to properly support the deployment. In itself, another Press disaster in the making.

I bet the press will complain about that as well, instead of what they should be covering, namely the scandalous state that our defences are in, which is due to the actions and inactions of all previous governments since 1990 and the lack of responsible journalistic reporting over the same period.

And goodness knows what the Press will make of it, when we supply a squadron of F35B to embark on a US LHD.

If the press want to continue to make themselves irrelevant, that is up to them. Let us not lose sight of what is really important, to get the earliest experience of operating with a significant number of F35B on board, so that when we have enough of our own aircraft, the expansion of the air wing can be as seamless as possible.

Scimitar54 wrote:Perhaps you would rather the deployment was postponed until 2023 or 2024, when we are scheduled to have the capability to embark two squadrons of F35B on board, That is, if the RAF agree to properly support the deployment. In itself, another Press disaster in the making.

I bet the press will complain about that as well, instead of what they should be covering, namely the scandalous state that our defences are in, which is due to the actions and inactions of all previous governments since 1990 and the lack of responsible journalistic reporting over the same period.

You mistake my post as disagreeing with the operation.

Merely stating that there is no such thing as "no way to look badly on this" from the press. Once they have their sights in, they will always find a way to get a headline.

You must mean "Gutter" Press, rather than true investigative journalism then?

Sadly, pretty much all mainstream press on defence matters is gutter press. Also don't mistake my suggestions of press perception and subsequently public perception (the general public don't frequent sites like these or specialist military press media) as bring in agreement. I'm just suggesting that HMG, the Mod, RN & RAF won't want what should be fantastically positive publicity as QE departs for her first deployment to be overshadowed by the types of headlines that RS mentioned up thread. Therefore, I'd wager that the RN/RAF number of F35s will outweigh those of the USMC. I'd bet we are likely to see something like 10 UK and 6-8 US F35bs

I could see it being more like this

RN -
12 x F35B
9 x ASW Merlin
5 x Crows Nest Merlin
1/2 x Wildcat

USMC -
10/12 x F35B
2 x V-22 ( for COD or AAR )

That gives w strong air wing impression and could be nicely spun that the RN are putting in a good deal more.

Aye you got to give it to the French c dear Gaulle be a long time before we can field 30 uk f35 on our carriers if ever how things tend to pan out and the French been doing it all thru the lean yrs with our invincible/ocean class harrier combo .think the rn we're looking across the channel with great envy when c de Gaulle was built and launched only now yrs later are we getting the qe class and still yrs off before we at c de Gaulle capability ,so fair play to the French on that score

What does half a Wildcat look like? and which half?
Just Teasing!

I wonder how many F35Bs QEC will need before the sortie rate overtakes that of the Rafale's.

The shame lies squarely on those responsible for the non-arrival of CVA01 and (CVA02 / CVA03).

I still strongly believe that a third QEC should have been built (for the RN). A workable solution might present itself with the replacement in due course, for the Albion Class provided that they turn out to be LPHs or LHDs. That is provided that 3 of the 4 x Flat Tops that then might be in the Fleet are in service at all times.

However Escorts will be even more of a problem ....... There is no time to waste!