Page 337 of 618

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 16:57
by SW1
SDL

I could see them deploying with 10 each.


Donald

I think it would be more if the QE deploys with 16 f35 for 6-9months then pow would be deploying with none. 24 is everything with wings on eg Falklands.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 17:03
by donald_of_tokyo
SW1 wrote:Donald

I think it would be more if the QE deploys with 16 f35 for 6-9months then pow would be deploying with none. 24 is everything with wings on eg Falklands.
"16 F35B for 6-9 months within 12 months out of 48 F35B" means deployment ratio of 8-12%.

16*6/24/48 = 0.08, or x1.5 if with 9 months

My assumption was, 18-26% deployment ratio

(24*6+10*6)/24/48 = 0.18

How is the number in US Navy?

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 17:20
by SW1
Donald

There is 2 operational sqns with a notional 12 a/c each that’s your total fleet 24 a/c. The rest oeu, ocu, deep maintenance and attrition.

I’ve no idea what the us navy do.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 17:59
by ArmChairCivvy
SW1 wrote:I’ve no idea what the us navy do.
They maintain a Carrier Wing (one over the number of carriers) and do not play around with squadrons (the French have 3 sqrdns +1 more for the AEW, so that 1 in normal circumstances, and 2 when actually sailing out, can be there).
- our FAA/ RAF mix smacks of the French approach

And, we should not term our (tailored) air group an Air Wing, as those are NOT tailored, but standardised (so that you can swap one out, one in... and carry on)

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:19
by Ron5
Aethulwulf wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Can you share the source(s) of your info? Thanks.
Can I just say "work" and avoid any possible trouble for myself.
No problem at all. Thanks for the reply.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:23
by Ron5
donald_of_tokyo wrote:French CDG carrier deploys with
- 2001: 16 Super Etendards, 2 Rafale, 1 Hawkeye +
- 2010: 12 Super Etendards, 10 Rafale, 2 Hawkeye +
- 2012: 7 Super Etendards, 7 Rafale, 2 Hawkeye +
- 2015: 9 Super Etendards, 12 Rafale, 2 Hawkeye +
- 2015: 8 Super Etendards, 18 Rafale = 31-34 in total as "a larger than normal air wing"
- 2016: 24 Rafale +

For me, if CVF deploys with 24 F35B, 13 Merlin, and a few Wildcat, it is great enough. Merlin is not small.
The F-35 isn't small either. Might look that way in the photos but stand next to one and it's like being next to a Phantom. I think I read someplace that the F-35C is too big for CdeG.

Was out shopping at Home Depot yesterday which is under the D-M flightpath, a lot of the usual NG F-16's and then a solo F-35. Different noise so makes you look up. I couldn't tell which version from underneath but probably an F-35B from Yuma.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:28
by Ron5
shotleylad wrote:More USMC jets than UK. I cannot see that happening.
I'm looking forward to the V-22's, that will be quite a sight. Refueling the RM Merlins maybe?

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:31
by Ron5
There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case? especially if the squadron is Navy?

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:34
by -Eddie-
A series of interesting tweets from QE.




Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:40
by benny14
Zero chance there are no UK jets onboard, I would say 6-8. I don't see the USMC committing a whole squadron, and certainly not for the whole tour, 4-8 with a couple helicopters and/or ospreys added on.
Ron5 wrote:There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case? especially if the squadron is Navy?
The name is really the only distinction. The first squadron 617 is manned with a 50/50 split between the RAF and FAA. The RAF and FAA will also be rotating squadron commanders, same will apply to the first FAA squadron.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:48
by SDL
I can definitely see them putting an Osprey or two onboard, if only to show the MOD how useful one or two of them might be be

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 18:49
by SW1
[quote="Ron5"]There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case? especially if the squadron is Navy?[/quote

All f35s are owned by the RAF all sqns will be operated jointly.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 19:23
by SKB

Aww. :cry:

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 19:50
by S M H
SDL wrote:I can definitely see them putting an Osprey or two onboard, if only to show the MOD how useful one or two of them might be be
Wont be a problem for the carrier to operate the Osprey's as the hanger centre section is designed to take them. A bit of forward thinking for once.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 21:58
by Ron5
I'll ask you again. There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case?

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 22:29
by bobp
Ron5 wrote:I'm looking forward to the V-22's, that will be quite a sight. Refueling the RM Merlins maybe?

hmm I saw my first CV-22 as I was driving South just over a week or so ago, I was on the A1 fairly close to RAF Leeming and Catterick. It was about three hundred feet up and was in Hover mode, and I could feel the downwash as it went overhead. Very impressed with what I saw and also it was a lot bigger than I imagined.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 23:37
by benny14
Aethulwulf wrote: The carrier was designed to be capable of an initial 24 hour surge of 108 sorties (36 × 3), with a sustained rate of 72 sorties per day (36 × 2). Everything was designed around these sortie rates and an aircraft load of 36 F35b and 4 Merlin AEW.
Was wondering something. This RN graphics seems to suggest 72 is the sortie rate with 24 F-35s. Also note the C2, Magazine and Acom ratios.
Image

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 23:37
by SKB

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 23:48
by SDL
Flight trials this coming week? *Bounces*

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 21 Sep 2018, 23:56
by SKB
They did say flight trials would be the "third week of September" didn't they?
Well, Saturday 22nd September is the final day of that third week. But there was the delay caused by Hurricane Florence, so I would guess next week ?

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 22 Sep 2018, 00:16
by benny14
SKB wrote:They did say flight trials would be the "third week of September" didn't they?
Well, Saturday 22nd September is the final day of that third week. But there was the delay caused by Hurricane Florence, so I would guess next week ?
It says he is there for "under" a week. So it would suggest he will be there until Thursday the 27th. Likely wants to spend a couple days watching so my guess would be that trials start on Monday the 24th.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 22 Sep 2018, 02:27
by ArmChairCivvy
The blank part of the accommodation graph (on the piccie benny brought in) is smaller than the complement required for running ASW ops; and no transport helos - their extra manning - are allowed for as yet
- max a Company?

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 22 Sep 2018, 05:16
by donald_of_tokyo
benny14 wrote:Was wondering something. This RN graphics seems to suggest 72 is the sortie rate with 24 F-35s. Also note the C2, Magazine and Acom ratios.
Image
Interesting.
1: Impressive that Carrier Strike needs huge magazine (~90%), which means huge logistic support is needed = importance of SSS.
2: Carrier Strike crew number is similar to ship's company. But, is ship's Coy itself is 680 or 733? It looks as if "ship's Coy" is only ~40% of the total accommodation. If the latter is 1600, ship's Coy will be ~640. I guess the graph is not so "exact".
But anyway, very informative and helpful figure. Thanks a lot.

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 22 Sep 2018, 06:13
by benny14
donald_of_tokyo wrote:2: Carrier Strike crew number is similar to ship's company. But, is ship's Coy itself is 680 or 733? It looks as if "ship's Coy" is only ~40% of the total accommodation. If the latter is 1600, ship's Coy will be ~640. I guess the graph is not so "exact"
HMS QEs originally stated crew is around ~680, which may have since grown. You then have the personnel for four squadrons which I think could easily go up to 600-800 personnel. There will also be up to a company of Royal Marines for personnel recovery with 2-3 MK-4 Merlins.
ArmChairCivvy wrote:The blank part of the accommodation graph (on the piccie benny brought in) is smaller than the complement required for running ASW ops; and no transport helos - their extra manning - are allowed for as yet
- max a Company?
I would guess its extra bunks and/or room for a RM company.

I like this graphic, which I think reinforces the point made about the helicopter airgroup been smaller when the carrier is operating with 36 F-35s. States that the ASW package will be distributed across the maritime task group platforms.

Image

24 F-35s, 3 Osprey, 3 Merlin AEW and 8 Merlins. :D
Image

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Posted: 22 Sep 2018, 08:08
by donald_of_tokyo
Japan has bought 17 SV22. But, because it was some political decision, Ground Self-Defence-Force was not actually ready for it. Operational cost of 17 V22 amounts to very large fraction of that of the whole helicopter fleet JGSDF has. On the other hand, JGSDF lacks AH capability, because they failed to purchase Apaches (terminated with only 13).

How about "exchanging" 20 of your 50 Apaches AH64E with 9 of JSDF V-22? This will give UK a fleet of
- 30 Apache AH64E
- 9 SV22, can be used for COD and AA refuel. (may be 3 onboard QLNZ)

Japan will have
- 13 Apache D
- 20 Apache E
- and 8 SV22.

I agree this is fantasy as for now, but as a defense collaboration, this will be an interesting idea? AAR capability will dramatically improve the interdiction operation of F35B ?