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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Max Jones » 08 Dec 2020, 19:38

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt

abc123
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby abc123 » 08 Dec 2020, 19:39

Yeah, people have laughed a lot when Germans or Russians had shipbuilding problems... :eh:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 08 Dec 2020, 23:31

Nuclear powered for a cool $6bn.

https://www.marinelink.com/news/frances ... ier-483735

Personally I think two QE's was a much better option.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 09 Dec 2020, 06:29

I noted that it would host up to 30 Rafales similar to the Queen Elizabeth class for F35B

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 09 Dec 2020, 07:18

Timmymagic wrote: need a far better system of accountability and scrutiny, their obfuscation and economy with the truth with Parliament in particular is appalling.
It is a reflection of a more general problem: a system in which ' the Executive branch' is over-powerful. Sprinkle in the in itself legitimate 'cloak of secrecy' that sometimes is needed in national security matters, and we seem to have a problem that has been acknowledged, hasn't been rectified over at least two decades.

Timmymagic wrote: I'd be intrigued to know if the Parliamentary Defence Committee had been briefed on this, or on the major delays to Vanguards refit
Well, at least the outside observers can count: when the unexpected reactor problems surfaced in these subs, the queue for 'spares' could not cope and grew to 51 months (behind from what had been planned). Then similarly, when the problem turned out not to be as systemic as was expected, that lag almost overnight went down to 9 months.
- the Committee does get briefings ' with the curtains in the room drawn'
- it is down to the Chair, how he sees the 'watch dog' role. Rory was so good at it that he was made a minister within months. I am hopeful that T.E. will see the role similarly, but will break less glass in the china shop (a way to get results)

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby bobp » 09 Dec 2020, 07:47

A chap down the pub said that POW would not now go to the US in May 2021, but would do its F35B trials of the UK coast. In a effort to save pennies he said. I generally trust this persons knowledge and he said this news was in a Newspaper but was not sure which.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 09 Dec 2020, 10:47

bobp wrote:A chap down the pub said that POW would not now go to the US in May 2021, but would do its F35B trials of the UK coast. In a effort to save pennies he said. I generally trust this persons knowledge and he said this news was in a Newspaper but was not sure which.


It's in the Telegraph today, alongside a load of other in year savings being floated.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 09 Dec 2020, 12:09

Poiuytrewq wrote:Nuclear powered for a cool $6bn.

https://www.marinelink.com/news/frances ... ier-483735

Personally I think two QE's was a much better option.


So it looks like they will only build one which will mean they will still suffer from the same problems of deployment

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 09 Dec 2020, 12:20

bobp wrote:A chap down the pub said that POW would not now go to the US in May 2021, but would do its F35B trials of the UK coast. In a effort to save pennies he said. I generally trust this persons knowledge and he said this news was in a Newspaper but was not sure which.


For me I don't see this as so much of a problem we just need to rethink what we can get out of any training time i.e if POW was to sail undertake helicopter work up and say embark 6 F-35 in a LHA config for a two or three week stint before joint warrior she could be joined by Albion two Bays and a Point class for a full Amphib group

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 09 Dec 2020, 16:21

It’s not a problem providing we don’t need any of the flight test a/c of course

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 09 Dec 2020, 20:36

Lack of available aircraft due to CSG21? :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 10 Dec 2020, 09:25

CSG-21 departs in May 2021 with no more than 8 UK F-35 maybe less. Joint warrior runs from late March or early April and so will be used to work up the carrier group before it departs. however this dose not mean POW can't conduct fix wing trails in UK waters nor work up a Helicopter air group of say 5 Merlin HC-4 , 5 Chinook plus 6 Army wildcats and 6 Apache and attend joint warrior in LHA/ LPH role as part of the Amphib group

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 10 Dec 2020, 10:06

Tempest414 wrote: 5 Chinook plus 6 Army wildcats and 6 Apache and attend joint warrior in LHA/ LPH role

Quite important as these assets are unlikely to join the 'world tour'

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 10 Dec 2020, 10:24

All well and good, but it will not be an adequate replacement for WESTLANT21. :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby NickC » 10 Dec 2020, 10:33

Poiuytrewq wrote:Nuclear powered for a cool $6bn.

https://www.marinelink.com/news/frances ... ier-483735

Personally I think two QE's was a much better option.


PARIS (AP) - "They didn’t provide a price tag but French media estimate it will cost around 7 billion euros ($8.5 billion)."

Would think at moment all figures highly speculative, but as nuclear will be expensive.

https://apnews.com/article/energy-indus ... c8a8c94856

Tempest414
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 10 Dec 2020, 10:37

Scimitar54 wrote:All well and good, but it will not be an adequate replacement for WESTLANT21. :mrgreen:


Why? what will POW get from a trip to the US

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 10 Dec 2020, 10:51

Tempest414 wrote:Why? what will POW get from a trip to the US

A tan and some black eyes. :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 10 Dec 2020, 12:29

My nipper in happier times a year ago. He is in the third picture underneath the 'E' of Wales at the back. It was an amazing day.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 10 Dec 2020, 13:33

SW1 wrote:It’s not a problem providing we don’t need any of the flight test a/c of course


They can't fly to the UK?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 10 Dec 2020, 13:38

Tempest414 wrote:CSG-21 departs in May 2021 with no more than 8 UK F-35 maybe less. Joint warrior runs from late March or early April and so will be used to work up the carrier group before it departs. however this dose not mean POW can't conduct fix wing trails in UK waters nor work up a Helicopter air group of say 5 Merlin HC-4 , 5 Chinook plus 6 Army wildcats and 6 Apache and attend joint warrior in LHA/ LPH role as part of the Amphib group


The RN seem to have dropped the idea of using the QEs as LPH. Thank goodness.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 10 Dec 2020, 15:35

in the true sense of a LPH I would agree but in the sense of a big deck for aviation that could lily pad from the LPD and LSD's with some fixed wing to boot its OK

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 11 Dec 2020, 09:27

Tempest414 wrote:Why? what will POW get from a trip to the US


The further trials using the ITF aircraft to prove the SRVL concept for 1. They've been fairly limited to date. PoW off the East Coast of the US with the ITF aircraft was going to do a lot more, including work with the Bedford Array. We can probably put the arrival of SRVL in operational service back at least a year now, probably more. Although it has to be said that SRVL is not really a time critical piece of work anymore, as with any UK planned munitions to be integrated this side of 2030 there is no chance of a UK F-35B approaching a weight where SRVL would be required for bring back.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 11 Dec 2020, 09:55

Could not have put it better myself! :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 11 Dec 2020, 10:11

Timmymagic wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:Why? what will POW get from a trip to the US


The further trials using the ITF aircraft to prove the SRVL concept for 1. They've been fairly limited to date. PoW off the East Coast of the US with the ITF aircraft was going to do a lot more, including work with the Bedford Array. We can probably put the arrival of SRVL in operational service back at least a year now.


But as said the ITF aircraft and all the little clever boxes can fly to the UK for the trials. However as we know this is all down to money and the MOD clearly fill they can live with the delay maybe at this time it is more important to do as much sea trials work as poss on crowsnet ahead of the 2021 deployment and after which can be done in UK waters so still a lot of good work can be done by POW in home waters

Also maybe HMG might be thinking they need her in UK waters to stop the EU fishing fleet :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 11 Dec 2020, 10:39

Tempest414 wrote:But as said the ITF aircraft and all the little clever boxes can fly to the UK for the trials. However as we know this is all down to money and the MOD clearly fill they can live with the delay maybe at this time it is more important to do as much sea trials work as poss on crowsnet ahead of the 2021 deployment and after which can be done in UK waters so still a lot of good work can be done by POW in home waters


The ITF aircraft are essentially a shared resource. Which is a very sensible idea. It could be US purchased aircraft performing trials for UK purposes on 1 day, with UK aircraft performing trials for the US the next. This is far more efficient. This sort of work is programmed in years ahead of time. Sending the test aircraft and equipment over to the UK will not have been programmed in to the timeline, it would add significant cost and, crucially, time into those arrangements. It just might not be possible to shift everything else off to the right in order to accommodate that. As far as I am aware there has never been any intention to bring the ITF aircraft to the UK, with the probable exception of when they have finished their working lives and they get put into Duxford, Cosford and Hendon.


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