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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 24 Sep 2020, 19:42

Timmymagic wrote:
Ron5 wrote:This is the caption to the MoD photos but the MoD press release says 14:


Looks like they've been running 2 figures in the releases as it was supposed to be 15. Must have been a delay to one F-35B joining QE yesterday as it has now arrived.


Bet it was an RAF pilot. Got lost over the ocean, no roads and train tracks to follow :D

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 24 Sep 2020, 19:44

Wrekin1410 wrote:Good news and nice video. Does anyone know the function of the person standing nearly at the bottom of the ramp just to the side of the "runway"? I've noticed someone there a couple of times now and it just looks like an accident waiting to happen.


Boss of the deck making sure all done correctly.

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topman
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby topman » 24 Sep 2020, 20:44

Ron5 wrote:
topman wrote:
Ron5 wrote:
topman wrote:
abc123 wrote:Again: Why not put some Chinhooks and Apaches as well? At least for the photo-op. :think:


Because aircraft that aren't involved in the exercise won't get involved as it's a waste of time. The MoD doesn't revolve around spotter circle jerks.


You seem to be forgetting the obligitary photo ops with ships and/or aircraft lining up in pretty patterns for the taxpayers delight. The RAF in particular. Very PR conscious.


Indeed, all the tweets on here being from the RAF ;)


On a Navy thread, how strange.


Remember the Navy don't have a PR dept. :shh:

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 24 Sep 2020, 21:21

14 or 15 F35b! If they don’t know where Australia is, it comes as no surprise that they can’t count either. :D

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby bobp » 24 Sep 2020, 21:57

Well I guess that this should put an end to the rumour that the F35B does not like rain.


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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 24 Sep 2020, 22:14

In the comparison of numbers carried by aircraft carrier Harrier versus F35B , another consideration might be for the sorties able to be generated if the F35b is able to maintain five sorties a day which could provide a useful coverage at only half the designed for sortie rate
With the f35b shown taking off in the "wet" is there any idea of the sea state?

inch
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby inch » 25 Sep 2020, 00:35

not sure sea state on video but im sure I heard somewhere they can operate upto sea state 6 ,unless someone knows different ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Wrekin1410 » 25 Sep 2020, 10:53

inch wrote:not sure sea state on video but im sure I heard somewhere they can operate upto sea state 6 ,unless someone knows different ?


Comfortably it seems. I don’t know if anyone here has ever listened to the Pilot Episodes podcast? It’s crab focused as it’s led by an airplane enthusiast and features 3 current and past pilots who were BBM and Reds pilots but two of them also flew harriers and did carrier tours and one of whom is a senior staff officer currently involved with the carrier program. It’s an interesting listen, I’ve been surprised by their candour on aircraft types and one of the recent episodes featured a day out on HMSQNLZ. They “give away” one or two interesting little snippets including anecdotally how stable they have found her in really high sea states.

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RichardIC
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RichardIC » 25 Sep 2020, 11:57

Thanks!

I've already got dozens of podcasts to listen to and now I've got another - and it's nearly two hours long.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 25 Sep 2020, 15:59

seaspear wrote:the F35b is able to maintain five sorties a day


I'm pretty sure the way back when requirement from the Marines was 3 a day. But of course, the type of sortie makes a difference.

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topman
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby topman » 25 Sep 2020, 17:53

It depends on how LM interpreted that requirement, fewer longer sorties are more realistic of real world flying.

What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 25 Sep 2020, 18:01

One that is really “in the the thick of it”. Fighter aircraft providing defensive cover for a Carrier in a very high threat environment, when as many sorties as are needed will require to be performed. :mrgreen:

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topman
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby topman » 25 Sep 2020, 18:07

Scimitar54 wrote:One that is really “in the the thick of it”. Fighter aircraft providing defensive cover for a Carrier in a very high threat environment, when as many sorties as are needed will require to be performed. :mrgreen:


You mean none then.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Caribbean » 25 Sep 2020, 18:07

Ron5 wrote:I'm pretty sure the way back when requirement from the Marines was 3 a day. But of course, the type of sortie makes a difference.

Three sorties a day per aircraft for the first two? days, followed by 2 sorties per aircraft per day was the target, but I do remember a statement from early testing, where it was stated that they were actually achieving five sorties per day (can't remember whether it was the USMC or the RN testing, though)

Edit - pretty certain it was the USMC
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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RichardIC
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RichardIC » 25 Sep 2020, 18:16

I've listened to part of the podcast mentioned above (thanks to a three hour round trip to take my mother to a hospital appointment) and there was a claim made by Wings on HMS QE that they were better able to generate sorties on a 24 hours-per-day basis than a US Navy CVN.

The reasoning was that that CVNs require such a huge deck crew they're not resourced to do it on a full three-watch basis. I was driving at the time but I'm pretty sure that was the claim.

The interview starts around 45 mins into the pod.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 25 Sep 2020, 18:39

Only if the Carrier has been sunk or disabled THEN. :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby topman » 25 Sep 2020, 18:44

Scimitar54 wrote:Only if the Carrier has been sunk or disabled THEN. :mrgreen:


What exactly are you on about?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby dmereifield » 25 Sep 2020, 19:01

RichardIC wrote:I've listened to part of the podcast mentioned above (thanks to a three hour round trip to take my mother to a hospital appointment) and there was a claim made by Wings on HMS QE that they were better able to generate sorties on a 24 hours-per-day basis than a US Navy CVN.

The reasoning was that that CVNs require such a huge deck crew they're not resourced to do it on a full three-watch basis. I was driving at the time but I'm pretty sure that was the claim.

The interview starts around 45 mins into the pod.


Your poor mother- having to go to hospital (hope she is well and makes a speedy recovery) and having to listen to your podcast in the car!

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RichardIC
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RichardIC » 25 Sep 2020, 19:03

dmereifield wrote:Your poor mother- having to go to hospital (hope she is well and makes a speedy recovery) and having to listen to your podcast in the car!


Nah, switched it off for that bit of the journey. I'll pass on your best wishes.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Sep 2020, 19:45

Ron5 wrote:I'm pretty sure the way back when requirement from the Marines was 3 a day.

topman wrote:What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?
Israeli jets, after the initial, longer range strike in the Six Day War.
Ron5 wrote:of course, the type of sortie makes a difference.
As per above, AKA CAS = Get there, drop a lot of ordnance... and get back again. Plenty quick.
Caribbean wrote: but I do remember a statement from early testing, where it was stated that they were actually achieving five sorties per day (can't remember whether it was the USMC


Which gives us the right (on USMC's part) answer = 4
- we are going over the old ground here, it's all there, in the F-35 thread

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 25 Sep 2020, 19:57

topman wrote:It depends on how LM interpreted that requirement, fewer longer sorties are more realistic of real world flying.

What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?


Sortie profiles were given. We not that dumb :D

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 25 Sep 2020, 20:02

Caribbean wrote:Three sorties a day per aircraft for the first two? days, followed by 2 sorties per aircraft per day was the target


That sounds more like a ship requirement.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 25 Sep 2020, 21:38

The FY2018 Acquisition report stated up to six sorties a day for the F35B off U.S.M.C L.H.Ds and U.K aircraft carriers depending on circumstances I have read the Eurofighter as a comparison is capable of three on its land bases apologies for not being able to download the report

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Caribbean » 25 Sep 2020, 23:35

Ron5 wrote:That sounds more like a ship requirement.

Yes - that was based on (IIRC) five days operations without resupply. From a little bit of digging on the interwebz, I've seen figures of 5.5 sorties per day in initial surge, followed by 4 sorties per day, for a couple of days, before dropping to 2 to 3 sorties a day (presumably until fuel and munitions run out. I think the implication is (because the limiting factor on total sorties is the stores capability of the Carrier plus support ships) is that we may need fewer aircraft to achieve the originally planned sortie rate.

Yes - I know........
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 26 Sep 2020, 01:54

Caribbean wrote:we may need fewer aircraft to achieve the originally planned sortie rate.


And not lose any.
Another ;levelling of mud huts; scenario
In which F-35s would be expensive overkill


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