UK Defence Forum

SKB wrote:HMS Daring ready by May 2021? No chance.

Am i missing something it says HMS Diamond and Defender above so what has Daring got to do with it?

The Armchair Soldier wrote:

dmereifield wrote:

The Armchair Soldier wrote:The four escorts selected to accompany the CSG 2021 deployment are HMS Daring, HMS Defender, HMS Kent and HMS Richmond.

Nice, shame.about the airwing, though. Are both the T23 ASW? I'm somewhat doubtful if we could muster 4 escorts regularly for each deployment though

From what I remember reading, it’s just a demonstration of what we could do if push came to shove, nothing regular.

That's what I assumed. 2 ASW and 1 AAD for peace time deployment is enough, surely? Especially when local forward deployed units will join the group as and when, and allied escorts will also join.

Certainly a nice looking group for the debut deployment, looking forward to the photos in due course!

dmereifield wrote:

The Armchair Soldier wrote:The four escorts selected to accompany the CSG 2021 deployment are HMS Daring, HMS Defender, HMS Kent and HMS Richmond.

Nice, shame.about the airwing, though. Are both the T23 ASW? I'm somewhat doubtful if we could muster 4 escorts regularly for each deployment though

Yes, both HMS Kent and HMS Richmond are ASW Type 23s.

HMS Richmond came out of refit quite recently and in addition to Sea Ceptor, etc she has also been fitted with up rated diesel generators. HMS Kent has also been through the Sea Ceptor refit and recommissioned in Oct 2018.

Aethulwulf wrote:

dmereifield wrote:

The Armchair Soldier wrote:The four escorts selected to accompany the CSG 2021 deployment are HMS Daring, HMS Defender, HMS Kent and HMS Richmond.

Nice, shame.about the airwing, though. Are both the T23 ASW? I'm somewhat doubtful if we could muster 4 escorts regularly for each deployment though

Yes, both HMS Kent and HMS Richmond are ASW Type 23s.

HMS Richmond came out of refit quite recently and in addition to Sea Ceptor, etc she has also been fitted with up rated diesel generators. HMS Kent has also been through the Sea Ceptor refit and recommissioned in Oct 2018.

Great, thanks

HMS Defender was accepted back into the fleet in Summer 2018, following a refit that included the installation of the Shaman communications electronic support measures (CESM) fit to used to gather signals intelligence.

HMS Diamond returned to sea a few days ago after completing a long maintenance period.

Timmymagic wrote:I remember when it was 12 and 12, then 12 and 8....now 8 and 6...

Wishful thinking. When was the last time the RAF deployed 12 typhoon overseas? Ever?

shark bait wrote:

Timmymagic wrote:I remember when it was 12 and 12, then 12 and 8....now 8 and 6...

Wishful thinking. When was the last time the RAF deployed 12 typhoon overseas? Ever?

Pretty much every year since about 2015.

Not in the same place mind.

Wonder if there will be 4 big European carriers in the 2030 then ? 2 X qe class ( if they both survive) and 1 possibly 2 larger nuclear french and possible french / German second of class carrier.

From The Brit, firstly the UK deployment followed by the 2020 French equivalent to make everyone feel good altho there's reason to believe that's not 100% accurate (too many Rafales, not enough escorts).

Taking away the aircraft for a moment is this the ships each navy is deploying as part of each of there carrier group. As said before the French tend to do this i.e the carrier and two escorts but then have allied escorts join the group and as also said the last French carrier group also had a type 45 and a IH class plus one other

Would have been nice to have them all leave Pompey at the same time for the deployment, but I know that HMS Richmond has already relocated to Devonport and HMS Kent was due to as well at some point so that the ASW and GP Frigates are all grouped together at different bases.

inch wrote:possible french / German second of class carrier

Where on earth has that been proposed?

RichardIC wrote:

inch wrote:possible french / German second of class carrier

Where on earth has that been proposed?

Wasn’t it floated last year as a “joint” European carrier based off the next french design, I believe Merkal was in support of the idea.

Jake1992 wrote:Wasn’t it floated last year as a “joint” European carrier based off the next french design, I believe Merkal was in support of the idea.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... t-carrier/

I missed that. Floated in a newspaper column, so not an official proposal or policy.

Jake1992 wrote:Wasn’t it floated last year as a “joint” European carrier based off the next french design, I believe Merkal was in support of the idea.

According to this it was Merkels successor in her party, but seems to be a bit more wishful thinking than anything likely to happen anytime soon, if at all.

Maybe that is why Germany are going for F-18s so they something to fly off any new carrier

PhillyJ wrote:According to this it was Merkels successor in her party, but seems to be a bit more wishful thinking than anything likely to happen anytime soon, if at all.

Yeah, but she also said "(we)... have to do other things as a priority."

Which is usually code for not wanting to contradict someone publicly but indicating you think it's a load of cobblers

https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-bac ... a-47860895

UKDJ can be very selective with their reporting and I really don't get why they ran this three months after the event.

Tempest414 wrote:Maybe that is why Germany are going for F-18s so they something to fly off any new carrier

Nope, the US won't let them integrate their nukes onto Eurofighter.

RichardIC wrote:Nope, the US won't let them integrate their nukes onto Eurofighter.

Thank I know the real reason I was being flippant. However with F-18 E/F and G and putting the second carrier aside a French carrier with a mixed German unit of 8 F-18F's and 4 G's could bring something to the table

Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.

This is a better question and this why I would say if they go for F-18 then pick the best pilots from the program to go on to do carrier training giving them a squadron that could join the French carrier

I am looking forward to hearing more on Bastille day as suggested on the French armed forces thread

Tempest414 wrote:This is a better question and this why I would say if they go for F-18 then pick the best pilots from the program to go on to do carrier training giving them a squadron that could join the French carrier

Perhaps the germans could start on the Rafale now, like the US navy helped us (UK) out for a few years, sorry way off topic

Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.

True but during WW2 they started building one, but it never got completed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ai ... f_Zeppelin

bobp wrote:

Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.

True but during WW2 they started building one, but it never got completed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ai ... f_Zeppelin

In fact they started building two, but the second one (Flugzeugträger B) never got further than a completed hull before it was scrapped for war materials. The German's wasted effort on these two ships probably helped the Allied war effort considerably, especially in the early days of the war when they could have been throwing more resources into U-boats and torpedo launches to cripple our maritime trade.

In truth the Kriegsmarine didn't need an aircraft carrier back then and the modern German Navy doesn't need one now, at least unless a major shift in German foreign policy occurs. If we think the QEC is at risk of Russian hypersonic missile etc, try operating one from a coastline that is never more than 500 miles from Russia's fortified Kaliningrad enclave.

Plenty of carrier capable aircraft in European air forces (Spanish/Swiss/Finnish F-18s) that have never come close to a carrier, much like our F-4s and Buccaneers in their later lives.

Were I to guess, I expect the French will prioritise their nuclear industry over their shipyards and pursue one very large CVN, rather than trying to get two smaller, conventionally powered ones. After all, they've made it work with CDG and (as I think I saw mentioned on another thread) will be paying for their SSBN replacement, possibly a new MBT and the FCAS, all at the same time as their carrier programme.

Jensy wrote:pursue one very large CVN

As long as it's longer than the British ones, one meter will do