Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[cockneyjock1974]

Okay another "according to Dave Cullen post" he said on face tube 3 hours ago the issue is with the angle of the propeller! Now whether that was caused by the netting or at the time of installation is the question. The good news is that it doesn't appear to be the shaft, also IIRC the prop blades are adjustable.

[R686]

Okay another "according to Dave Cullen post" he said on face tube 3 hours ago the issue is with the angle of the propeller! Now whether that was caused by the netting or at the time of installation is the question. The good news is that it doesn't appear to be the shaft, also IIRC the prop blades are adjustable.

Well that's good and bad news, that's why we have sea tails and OT&E, but the media will find away of portraying it in a ad light.

[Aethulwulf]

Continuous Amphibious Readiness.

Difficult to get a full Cdo Rgmnt out of the two, on a continuous basis
- will that be a Company+ at VH, and other elements rolling onboard if time permits?

The requirement is to be able to deploy a 1800 man Commando group with 30 days notice to move (or maybe less). That applies to all the elements needed for the Commando group, the helicopters, the amphibious ships, a carrier, escort ships, etc.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

Okay another "according to Dave Cullen post" he said on face tube 3 hours ago the issue is with the angle of the propeller! Now whether that was caused by the netting or at the time of installation is the question. The good news is that it doesn't appear to be the shaft, also IIRC the prop blades are adjustable.

Phew! Was beginning to wonder whether there was a more 'serious' issue as no news and no updates.

[cockneyjock1974]

Okay another "according to Dave Cullen post" he said on face tube 3 hours ago the issue is with the angle of the propeller! Now whether that was caused by the netting or at the time of installation is the question. The good news is that it doesn't appear to be the shaft, also IIRC the prop blades are adjustable.

Phew! Was beginning to wonder whether there was a more 'serious' issue as no news and no updates.

Nothing's confirmed yet mate but, it's starting to look better, another guy has said she's recommencing sea trials by the weekend

[Pymes75]

Okay another "according to Dave Cullen post" he said on face tube 3 hours ago the issue is with the angle of the propeller! Now whether that was caused by the netting or at the time of installation is the question. The good news is that it doesn't appear to be the shaft, also IIRC the prop blades are adjustable.

WTF?! Does he mean, "angle of the propellor" or 'angle of the blades'? The former sure sounds like a shaft line issue to me! How I wish Dessertswo was still around to discuss what this could mean...

[swoop]

Looking at photos of the props, they are 5 bladed and each blade can have its pitch altered (sadly, only when in dock or by bubbleheads).
If one blade is a fraction different to its 4 brothers, vibration can occur.

Being adjustable, if you strike anything in the ocean there is a possibility of movement of the blade/s. It will be interesting to find out if anything was hit, or an installation error?

I predicted back in the days of MP.net that PoW could have been pulled out of dock and enabled QE to re-enter for prop fitting and a hull clean. Sadly the MoD didn't listen to me.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Sadly the MoD didn't listen to me.

It is a constant frustration

[cockneyjock1974]

I knew something was wrong....

It has been confirmed that HMS Queen Elizabeth is currently having rectification and repair work done after a propeller issue was identified in sea trials.

Multiple sources, some on board the vessel, have told the UK Defence Journal that an issue has been identified with the prop shaft, specifically the part of the frame holding the prop in place is 12mm out of alignment, causing the prop to be slightly at an angle leading to ‘cavitation, excess noise and drag’.

It’s possible that this may have been caused by debris as earlier in the month as HMS Queen Elizabeth picked up an item of debris around one of her propeller shafts earlier in the month.

The Aircraft Carrier Alliance confirmed at the time that divers had been investigating the debris around one of the propeller shafts:

“HMS Queen Elizabeth is making progress through her sea trials programme, which is designed to test the full spectrum of her systems. The ship is performing well, however an item of debris was caught around one of the propeller shafts. This was subsequently cleared and an investigation has been undertaken.”

HMS Queen Elizabeth visited Invergordon for a planned stop to re-fuel and store the ship however she has been alongside longer than planned. We understand that the opportunity has been taken to undertake some engineering work, but sources close to the programme assure us that “this is very much in hand and, whilst I’m aware of the speculation, we expect this to be routinely undertaken and for sea trials to continue successfully.”

Earlier in the week a crew member told us that “On the 24th of this month we are going back to dry dock as on the props need to completely stripped apart”, he did add however that this was only a rumour and may not be the case.

We reached out to the ACA for comment who responded by suggesting that this isn’t out of the ordinary:

“HMS Queen Elizabeth is making progress through the sea trials programme, designed to test the full spectrum of her vast and complex systems.

We fully anticipate this will identify areas for improvement that will be addressed at sea, during routine port stops or as part of the planned engineering period.”

Sea trials monitor speed, manoeuvrability, power and propulsion as well as undertaking weapons trials and additional tests on her levels of readiness.

Following this initial period, HMS Queen Elizabeth will return to Rosyth for further testing and maintenance before heading back to sea for a second stage which aims to test her Mission Systems. She will transit to her home port of Portsmouth Naval Base to be handed over to the Royal Navy later this year.

It should be noted that the point of sea trials is to find issues and rectify them. Things will go wrong as the vessel is essentially a giant prototype and while this isn’t one of those ‘things going wrong’, we remain confident that she’ll pass her trials with flying colours.

It remains to be seen what the true cause of this issue is however, it doesn’t appear to be a major issue.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk

[bobp]

the part of the frame holding the prop in place is 12mm out of alignment

Despite the fact that this is being glossed 12mm is half a inch which is a lot. Whether they can realign the bits without dry docking is a big question. I suspect that in the big picture of things that this is no big deal but the press if they catch on to it will have a field day.

[Sunk at Narvik]

I wonder how they'll spin it?

/coat etc

[SKB]

If QE can do 26.3 kts (visible with AIS) with one propellor misaligned, imagine what she actually do with them both perfectly aligned?! She's waaay faster than her "official" specs.

[inch]

Look on the other side of it when they fix the issues if went at 26.3 knots with cavitation and excessive drag ,look what she might achieve when they fix it folks ,like I said it's just teething problems and will get fixed have no fear

[SKB]

This is why sea trials exist! To find faults in new ships and to fix them before she is commissioned as an active warship.
Sadly, I think the media will be less understanding and unsympathetic when they eventually find out. They still don't even understand why she doesn't have planes flying off her yet.

[inch]

You were fastercthan me skb lol cool that's what I was just thinking

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

I knew something was wrong....

It has been confirmed that HMS Queen Elizabeth is currently having rectification and repair work done after a propeller issue was identified in sea trials.

Multiple sources, some on board the vessel, have told the UK Defence Journal that an issue has been identified with the prop shaft, specifically the part of the frame holding the prop in place is 12mm out of alignment, causing the prop to be slightly at an angle leading to ‘cavitation, excess noise and drag’.

It’s possible that this may have been caused by debris as earlier in the month as HMS Queen Elizabeth picked up an item of debris around one of her propeller shafts earlier in the month.

The Aircraft Carrier Alliance confirmed at the time that divers had been investigating the debris around one of the propeller shafts:

“HMS Queen Elizabeth is making progress through her sea trials programme, which is designed to test the full spectrum of her systems. The ship is performing well, however an item of debris was caught around one of the propeller shafts. This was subsequently cleared and an investigation has been undertaken.”

HMS Queen Elizabeth visited Invergordon for a planned stop to re-fuel and store the ship however she has been alongside longer than planned. We understand that the opportunity has been taken to undertake some engineering work, but sources close to the programme assure us that “this is very much in hand and, whilst I’m aware of the speculation, we expect this to be routinely undertaken and for sea trials to continue successfully.”

Earlier in the week a crew member told us that “On the 24th of this month we are going back to dry dock as on the props need to completely stripped apart”, he did add however that this was only a rumour and may not be the case.

We reached out to the ACA for comment who responded by suggesting that this isn’t out of the ordinary:

“HMS Queen Elizabeth is making progress through the sea trials programme, designed to test the full spectrum of her vast and complex systems.

We fully anticipate this will identify areas for improvement that will be addressed at sea, during routine port stops or as part of the planned engineering period.”

Sea trials monitor speed, manoeuvrability, power and propulsion as well as undertaking weapons trials and additional tests on her levels of readiness.

Following this initial period, HMS Queen Elizabeth will return to Rosyth for further testing and maintenance before heading back to sea for a second stage which aims to test her Mission Systems. She will transit to her home port of Portsmouth Naval Base to be handed over to the Royal Navy later this year.

It should be noted that the point of sea trials is to find issues and rectify them. Things will go wrong as the vessel is essentially a giant prototype and while this isn’t one of those ‘things going wrong’, we remain confident that she’ll pass her trials with flying colours.

It remains to be seen what the true cause of this issue is however, it doesn’t appear to be a major issue.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk

You can just see the anti-navy and anti-QEC Carrier brigade rubbing their hands over this and shouting out the words 'fail' and 'waste of money' not actually realising the whole purpose of sea trials is to find this out now, rather than when she's out on operations.

[Timmymagic]

If QE can do 26.3 kts (visible with AIS) with one propellor misaligned, imagine what she actually do with them both perfectly aligned?! She's waaay faster than her "official" specs.

I've been saying that for donkeys. I'd be amazed if she can't hit 29 knots+.

Now someone, somewhere must have done the calcs on wetted area/installed hp to figure it out.

[Timmymagic]

You can just see the anti-navy and anti-QEC Carrier brigade rubbing their hands over this and shouting out the words 'fail' and 'waste of money' not actually realising the whole purpose of sea trials is to find this out now, rather than when she's out on operations.

It's amazing isn't it. When a prototype aircraft dives into the ground, actually killing people, like the A400 did in Spain there's hardly a whisper. A minor engineering problem on a brand new ship, in it's first few days at sea, that is getting rectified and killed no-one is the end of the world...

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

You can just see the anti-navy and anti-QEC Carrier brigade rubbing their hands over this and shouting out the words 'fail' and 'waste of money' not actually realising the whole purpose of sea trials is to find this out now, rather than when she's out on operations.

It's amazing isn't it. When a prototype aircraft dives into the ground, actually killing people, like the A400 did in Spain there's hardly a whisper. A minor engineering problem on a brand new ship, in it's first few days at sea, that is getting rectified and killed no-one is the end of the world...

The V22 Osprey aircraft, used by the USMC has a terrible record I quote 'The V-22 Osprey has had nine hull-loss accidents with a total of 39 fatalities. During testing from 1991 to 2000, there were four crashes resulting in 30 fatalities', do people crow over this? NO. Some people do not realise the whole purpose of trials, and with a new in class ship as QNLZ, there was always going to be LOTS of issues once they went out on sea trials, but guess what, they'll be resolved.

[cockneyjock1974]

All sounds like it's in hand and yes sea trials are for the reasons above. Look at GRF they reckon it'll take 2 further years before EMALS and AAG are sorted and when they are, what a ship that'll be.

Any takers on POW's prop blades being fitted in dry dock not underwater?

[RetroSicotte]

On the speed, I still wish I could find that old youtube interview with the Assembly Director who let slip about it being capable of 32 knots.

Never found any other source on it, but recent findings certainly seem to indicate she's a hell of a lot faster than the official announcements made it out.

[Pymes75]

If QE can do 26.3 kts (visible with AIS) with one propellor misaligned, imagine what she actually do with them both perfectly aligned?! She's waaay faster than her "official" specs.

I'm guessing that 26.5kts is the KUR speed she must be capable of sustaining at the end of her life (with full weight growth) and at Full Load. Right now, she's new and 'light' so should be capable of way more than her design speed.

[cockneyjock1974]

On the speed, I still wish I could find that old youtube interview with the Assembly Director who let slip about it being capable of 32 knots.

Never found any other source on it, but recent findings certainly seem to indicate she's a hell of a lot faster than the official announcements made it out.

Considering it's a twin prop it's already impressive.

[Digger22]

I think PoW should stay in 1 dock for the duration, making the prop changes easier, as CJ says. No real need to move her out, apart from her sisters need to borrow her bunk. After that she should go back in and stay there. So PoW will have a couple of weeks in the basin while QE has her prop/shaft adjusted? Can't imagine they will leave QE hanging around till mid Sept! Must be pretty hectic at Rosyth getting ready to move PoW early?
Any give away tug movements?

[SKB]

Any give away tug movements?

The "supertug" SD Tempest is still berthed in Portsmouth and hasn't budged an inch since her return from Rosyth on 29th June.
But they may not need Tempest just to move PoW that very short distance. QE was moved to the fitting out berth with regular tugs in July 2014.