Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Roders96 wrote:it has always been mentioned that there are more pilots than aircraft
Currently it is turning out to be the two thirds pilot per plane... as opposed to the 2 or 3 that you meant

On the other hand, Ron confirmed on another thread that some of the earlier F-35s have been allocated to trainer duties (no upgrades to be done)
- in the long run we are aiming for the same 70/30 training as what the Israelis have implemented for their Adirs (only 30% to be done flying and the rest on simulators, surrounded by simulated or VR mission environments)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:On the other hand, Ron confirmed on another thread that some of the earlier F-35s have been allocated to trainer duties (no upgrades to be done)
I was actually referring to the first batch which I think provided the test & development airframes in the US. Timmy would know better.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ron5 wrote:the test & development airframes
Ohh, ok, that's been known for years
... not my first :D mistake today
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Very interesting session here.

dmereifield
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

"Up to" 24 by 1923, Ron....glimmer of hope for 24 by '24...(the "up to" is doing a lot of heavy lifting)

Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

dmereifield wrote:"Up to" 24 by 1923, Ron....glimmer of hope for 24 by '24...(the "up to" is doing a lot of heavy lifting)
The 24 figure certainly seems extreme. That seems like a nice goal for 2023 assuming UK-US cooperation (12 each or maybe something favouring the UK like 16-8) but for a fully British capability by then that would be amazing.

With that said, I think we should stop looking at the presence of US jets as a detriment to the UK overall strike capability. Obviously it isn't a representation of theN UK's standalone capability but even in the 2030s (when the UK should hopefully have a full fleet of F-35Bs so it could plausibly provide a full wartime load of 36+ jets on a carrier in addition to RAF assets), I would expect the US to maintain at least a small squadron of 6-10 jets on board on a semi-regular basis to demonstrate branching capabilities and mutual support between countries.

It is a mutually beneficial exercise that improves both militaries as a whole for the training and experience they get. Perhaps to enforce this, a flight of UK F-35Bs could be placed on US LHAs or even CVNs alongside their F-35Cs as they begin to integrate fully operational stealth squadrons. Obviously they wouldn't be as efficient but they could still be helpful for short range fleet air defence.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Max Jones wrote:Perhaps to enforce this, a flight of UK F-35Bs could be placed on US LHAs or even CVNs alongside their F-35Cs as they begin to integrate fully operational stealth squadrons
I'd have paid money to see the good Air Vice Marshall have to respond to that idea. He might have dropped dead on the spot :D

What?? put my aircraft on a yankee ship??????

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

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(HMSQNLZ) 28th September 2020
"I often think that the night is more alive and more richly coloured than the day". Vincent Van Gogh.

With sustained flying ops well practiced the deck is green 24hrs a day but nothing beats a night #JetPic. #Groupex #JW202

bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

Great pictures. Hope the USMC are enjoying their tour on the QE.

Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

Both T45s should be arriving later today (Tuesday) or tomorrow with the T23s in on Thursday where photos of the full CSG are planned. Not sure about auxiliaries but I assume they will be present too.

Foreign escorts should be arriving soon as well though I think the completely British CSG will form first.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Max Jones wrote:when the UK should hopefully have a full fleet of F-35Bs so it could plausibly provide a full wartime load of 36+ jets on a carrier in addition to RAF assets
Be still my beating heart. That would be one heck of a sight.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Max Jones wrote:Both T45s should be arriving later today (Tuesday) or tomorrow with the T23s in on Thursday where photos of the full CSG are planned. Not sure about auxiliaries but I assume they will be present too.

Foreign escorts should be arriving soon as well though I think the completely British CSG will form first.
This one too :thumbup:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

I've seen a lot of activity involving grey merlins (not sure if they are HC4s or HM2s) over the last hour or two.

With so many tied up on QE, could POW be sailing soon?

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

Well if the surprise they were referring to on twitter is POW meeting the CSG, got me wondering when was the last time 2 British fixed wing carriers met in a strike group? that will be a awesome sight to see :clap: :clap: :clap: 8-)

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

A 2 x Carrier Strike Group would require 6 x F435 Front Line Squadrons! Now that would be a sight for sore eyes (especially if all were FAA). :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

Where the hell did that “A” come from !!!!!!!!!!

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

Easily done with all these excellent photo & news coming through the pipe-line as it were :D thought they may of changed the designation of the F35 already :lol:

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Poiuytrewq »

From the Telegraph:

A couple of quotes from General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, the head of the British Army speaking yesterday.

Describing a more dynamic and active posture for the army in future years, General Carleton-Smith suggested RAF bases and the Royal Navy’s new aircraft carriers could provide “lily pads” from which the army could operate with allies.

“If we are going to see a UK presence in the region from [Royal Navy] Carrier Strike Groups I would like to see some of those naval assets disembarking elements of the British Army for their own training in that part of the world.”
This could be important but what Army assets and at what scale isn't immediately clear and how it would impact the Royal Marines again isn't clear. Also, why this involves the CVF's rather than the LPD's and/or the proposed LSS seems odd. Maybe the lack of embarked helicopters on the LPD's is the issue.

Here is the article in full:

General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, the head of the British Army.
The Army is to have a "more persistent presence" in Asia, the Chief of the General Staff has said, ahead of the government’s Integrated Review.

General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith said a greater presence overseas will reverse the process of withdrawal seen after 9/11 when the focus of the armed forces shifted to the Middle East.

The head of the army was outlining the likely shape of his service that will emerge from the government’s Integrated Review of foreign, defence and security policy, which is expected to report in November.

Describing a more dynamic and active posture for the army in future years, General Carleton-Smith suggested RAF bases and the Royal Navy’s new aircraft carriers could provide “lily pads” from which the army could operate with allies.

“We think there is a market for a more persistent presence from the British Army [in the Far East].

“It’s an area that saw a much more consistent Army presence in the 1980s but with 9/11 we naturally receded from it. We think now might be the time to redress that imbalance.

“If we are going to see a UK presence in the region from [Royal Navy] Carrier Strike Groups I would like to see some of those naval assets disembarking elements of the British Army for their own training in that part of the world.”

The head of the army was speaking in advance of a speech on Wednesday from the Defence Secretary and the Chief of the Defence Staff about the future strategy for the armed forces.

Ben Wallace and General Sir Nick Carter will outline the Integrated Operating Concept which will seek to address how Britain’s military forces will operate alongside allies and other government departments such as intelligence agencies in the future.

Britain has been keen for some time to expand military ties with countries such as Japan and South Korea, partly as a response to an increasingly muscular China.

Having a more persistent army presence in the region will “change narratives, provide reassurance to allies and deterrence for adversaries,” General Carleton-Smith said.

“They will give the UK more strategic choice and influence.”

The Telegraph understands Central and South America and East Africa are regions also being considered for an expanded British Army presence.

General Carleton-Smith said a priority after the Integrated Review will be to grow Britain’s Special Operations and intelligence forces.

The army chief said UK special forces was “one of our most valued and relevant strategic assets” and should be enhanced.

The former SAS commander said Russia should be challenged for operating “on the seams and blurred boundaries of our security and legal frameworks”, respecting “neither borders nor the rules-based order”.

“We need forces to shine a light into the shadows,” he said.

Countering recent speculation that the review would get rid of much of Britain’s fleet of tanks and other armoured vehicles, the head of the army insisted the “capability to warfight” would balance a lighter and more agile force, and was necessary to “underpin flexible modern deterrence”.

“Competitors operate below the threshold of war precisely because we maintain one,” he said.

Sir Chris Deverell, the former Commander of Joint Forces, told the Telegraph General Carleton-Smith was “right to conclude that it would be foolish to throw away our warfighting capability in pursuit of our adversaries in cyberspace”.

Tools such as cyber and disinformation were used by Britain’s adversaries below the threshold of war “precisely because we maintain the ability to win above that threshold,” he said.

However, he cautioned the Defence budget would be under increased pressure if a lighter and more technical military was developed alongside existing structures.

“We continue to need ‘boots’ as well as ‘bots’. But holding this creed is not the same as explaining how it can be achieved if there is to be no more money for Defence.

“How well the Government takes this trick will be the key way to measure the success of the Integrated Review.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... staff-has/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Poiuytrewq wrote: “We continue to need ‘boots’ as well as ‘bots’.
A good one, whereas
Poiuytrewq wrote:The Telegraph understands Central and South America and East Africa are regions also being considered for an expanded British Army presence.
it beats me who we might 'deter' in the Americas? The French are quite overstretched in W Africa and the US (the current Admin) has signalled a retreat (militarily) from the whole continent (exc? the forces facing Yemen, from across the sea).
- so Kenya. both for presence and as a jumping-off post... a tethered lilly pad - would make more sense

Anyway, in a general sense this wisdom
" Battles are won by slaughter and manoeuvre. The greater the general, the more he contributes in manoeuvre, the less he demands in slaughter" by Winston S Churchill seems to be percolating through
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Roders96
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Roders96 »

"the best way to win is to win without a fight" - Tsun Zu.

Why we spend gazillions on imposing carriers and their -required- air wing and supporting elements, after all.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Roders96 »

Does anyone know if there has been any progress on this?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... mbat-drone

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Timmymagic »

Roders96 wrote:Does anyone know if there has been any progress on this?
USMC MUX requirement isn't dead, but it has changed. They've gone from 1 UAV/UCAV doing lots of the roles from ships using vertical takeoff and landing, to splitting the job with large, runway based UAV's doing the high altitude, long endurance role and a smaller UAV going onboard the ship.

Whether that means the V-247 is dead has not been explicitly made clear. But realistically given the costs to develop such a complex platform and deploy it you'd have to say that it was as dead as a dodo. It looks like a Protector type UCAV from land and Integrator+ sized UAV's from ships will be the direction of travel.

https://news.usni.org/2020/03/10/marine ... rd-vehicle

One thing to watch is the amount of work and proposals on the eVTOL space at present. There are some serious implications for the cost and availability of vertical takeoff platforms in the near future if just a tiny proportion of the current proposals reach fruition. Worth bearing in mind for Future Vertical Lift, Shipborne UAV's, Merlin and Puma replacements, QE airgroup etc. The near future could be very different.

I previously posted the Faradair BEHA proposal (which included a CGI of it on QE) a STOL hybrid-electric design, here's another UK one which has been in development for a while for people to ponder...

https://www.samadaerospace.com/starling-jet
Video won't show an image here, but click through to view
https://vimeo.com/444844044

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There could even be a training version that looks wonderfully like a Victor from some angles..
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Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:t beats me who we might 'deter' in the Americas?
Pretty sure Argentina is down there someplace :D

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ron5 wrote: Argentina is down there
Oh, you mean the armed pensions :) , at 0.85% of the GDP?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

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(HMSQNLZ) 30th September 2020
Welcome to CarrierStrike, RFA Fort Victoria. As a solid support Ship, she will enable the UK and
NATO Carrier Strike Group to go further, for longer - and hopefully keep morale high with biscuits.

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