Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[andrew98]

What are the definitions of a high threat environment that four escorts can counter ?

The French?

[Opinion3]

If the RN is training 24/7 for this "high threat environment" then the carriers cannot be sailing without the full complement of escorts. This seems to be contrary to many of the themes on this thread which suggest a full carrier escort only "in a high threat environment"/ read blue moon.

I am going to suggest that the RN needs to train so that means the full escort complement will be the norm. My original comment was a question, I suspect someone on this thread will know the general RN ethos and approach so could confirm or dispute this.

[R686]

If the RN is training 24/7 for this "high threat environment" then the carriers cannot be sailing without the full complement of escorts. This seems to be contrary to many of the themes on this thread which suggest a full carrier escort only "in a high threat environment"/ read blue moon.

I am going to suggest that the RN needs to train so that means the full escort complement will be the norm. My original comment was a question, I suspect someone on this thread will know the general RN ethos and approach so could confirm or dispute this.

training will be role and mission/Ex specific, just like the AU ARG capability it would be worked up once every three to five years for something like RimPac or similar high intensity warfare is only one aspect numerous ex will have lead in for two carrier ops

[indeid]

Some interesting comments by the First Sea lord ..."with an attack submarine held on a reasonably tight rein."

That would be bloody stupid. The same logic that Mr German used to keep the Bf-109 fighters glued to the bomber formations instead of being able to do what fighters do best.

Leave it up the the sub commander to instigate tactics, instead of interfering Mr Sea Lord.

A SSN is such a useful asset that can have conflicting missions for different masters. I read that as a warning that the SSN is there as a hunter killer for the CSG, and not available for hire.

[swoop]

With only 1 SSN there and only one CV active- what can he do? To send her somewhere to hunt and leave CBG unprotected?

Certainly not on a "tight reign".
It is up to the offensive duties of the sub to go wherever and do whatever is required for the protection of the asset it is protecting.

[shark bait]

It's an interesting comment. The RN, unlike the USN, hasn't used SSN's to escort carrier groups for a long time, they have always been used a lone hunter killers.

It's also unknown how hes going to magic up the 2 extra boats to keep on "reasonably tight rein", because we do not have enough nuke boats, and the the availability of the ones we do have is terrible.

I assume it is valuable having a silent predator operating in the same region as the carrier, (even if it isn't) it forces the enemy to dedicate a lot resources to counter the SSN threat.

[PhillyJ]

Whilst on another Harbour Trip this weekend the Capt mentioned that the Queen Elizabeth commissioning was going to be December 15th, at least according to the latest news they had been told. Not sure if he was reliably informed or just filling in time on his commentary, to be fair he did say that the F35B was going to be in use with the US Army and ourselves...

[grimbob]

This just flashed up on my start page, sorry if it's already been posted.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/myths-s ... -carriers/

[seaspear]

With Qinetic ready to start the testing of "Dragonfire" early next year in a clean room in the U.K have there been discussions on its placement on the carriers , is the footprint of the weapon a bolt on that can be fitted most places to bolster the defence of only 3 phalanxes

[bobp]

With Qinetic ready to start the testing of "Dragonfire"

Dragonfire is a long long way from going into production. It only exists as a design and a model. Individual testing of the various sub-systems has yet to take place and I would imagine take time. Ideally if it all works then we should see a working system in a few years time. Only then will they know how it can be installed on current/future platforms.

[cockneyjock1974]

Considering there was a poor sod on top of the bridge of HMS Plymouth with a laser, trying to blind Argie pilots in 1982.
It’s certainly not a new concept! I just don’t know why they didn’t continue development over the last 35 years.

[bobp]

Issue all crew members with Laser pens to dazzle enemy pilots

[Ron5]

Because blinding pilots with lasers was outlawed by international convention.

Not cricket.

[seaspear]

Qinetic expects to be able to deploy the Dragonfire on naval platforms in the early 20,s and fully integrate by mid twenties ,a very similar time frame to the f35b rollout , they claim to have been able to use successfully on an incoming mortar in a trial.

[cockneyjock1974]

Because blinding pilots with lasers was outlawed by international convention.

Not cricket.

I’m talking about developing the laser as a weapon, not developing a blinding pilots program FFS.

[R686]

Because blinding pilots with lasers was outlawed by international convention.

Not cricket.

I’m talking about developing the laser as a weapon, not developing a blinding pilots program FFS.

Considering there was a poor sod on top of the bridge of HMS Plymouth with a laser, trying to blind Argie pilots in 1982.
It’s certainly not a new concept! I just don’t know why they didn’t continue development over the last 35 years.

A bit more context may have helped, when you made a reference to blinding pilots


http://www.redcross.org/.../m3640104_IH ... vaConv.pdf

Art 35
Use of weapons that “cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering,” as well as means of warfare that “cause widespread, long-term, and severe damage to the natural environment” are prohibited.

Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons (Protocol IV to the 1980 Convention), 13 October 1995

Article 1

It is prohibited to employ laser weapons specifically designed, as their sole combat function or as one of their combat functions, to cause permanent blindness to unenhanced vision, that is to the naked eye or to the eye with corrective eyesight devices. The High Contracting Parties shall not transfer such weapons to any State or non-State entity.

[cockneyjock1974]

And who asked you for your ten pence worth?

[R686]

And who asked you for your ten pence worth?

its called an open forum I know


to be fair I'm surprised Ron knows about cricket

[Dave]

Whilst on another Harbour Trip this weekend the Capt mentioned that the Queen Elizabeth commissioning was going to be December 15th,

Has someone told the Queen? She’s going to be a bit early for the ceremony if you’re right

Her Majesty the Queen will then visit the ship in Portsmouth on 7 December for the formal commissioning ceremony.

Her Majesty will be joined by a host of dignitaries from the Royal Family, Government and the military, before saying a few words as Lady Sponsor. The commissioning warrant will then be read and the White Ensign raised, symbolising the acceptance of HMS Queen Elizabeth into Her Majesty’s fleet.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/quee ... light-deck

[SKB]

I wonder if the Queen and Prince Philip will arrive by helicopter from Windsor and land on QE's flightdeck? I can't imagine them arriving in the usual Bentley and then walking up gangways and stairs from the jetty at their ages somehow....

[Timmymagic]

Because blinding pilots with lasers was outlawed by international convention.

Not cricket.

It's worth noting that the laser 'Dazzlers' were not designed to harm pilots eyesight. They were in fact designed to cause the pilots canopies to fluoresce, essentially making them unable to see through the canopy as a result of the interaction of the laser light with the thousands of tiny scratches and imperfections in an aircraft canopy. The pilot would then be unable to see and either climb or turn away, breaking off the attack, or lose spatial awareness and crash. If the pilot crashed and died he would die with his vision perfectly intact....

[Spinflight]

Lasers are perfectly legal against anyone using scopes and the like.

Could also easily be argued that a HUD or HMS represents similar or the same.

[benny14]

Given the fact that a drone was able to land on HMS QE while it was on sea trials, having some sort of laser system on it would be an excellent defense against drone attacks as well as many others. What are the current options, fire an expensive CAM/Aster missile or fire CIWS, both of which if used against drones in lose proximity could have a chance of hitting friendly ships. A laser would be a cheap and accurate weapon system with minimal collateral damage.

Looking forward to seeing Dragon get tested on one of our ships within the next 5 years. Glad we are developing a laser our selfs. Hopefully we can jump on to the US rail gun program at some point in the future, although I think the RN sees it as a very distant future project compared to the laser.

[CameronPerson]

That hangar is bloody huge.. Balls to the F-35 I wonder how many London busses could be fitted in there?!

[QEC Eye in the SKY]