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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 26 Feb 2019, 09:18

SW1 Wrote
You are not ever deploying every aircraft you have at a base certainly not this one and certainly not at this point in its service life. Getting 7 deployed will be challenging enough


That is the point. If the squadron is deployed to the Carrier, the Carrier becomes their base. :mrgreen:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby topman » 26 Feb 2019, 15:40

Old RN wrote:Given the common aircraft spec would the USMC aircraft deployed to QE use ASRAAM and PW-IV or would they have US weapons loaded into QE's magazines?


Is it a det where live weapon use has been confirmed ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Digger22 » 26 Feb 2019, 18:41

It's a great point, moving forward to Operations, would USMC maintainers/armourous be part of the embarked personnel? If different weapons are employed by USMC jets, I can't see an alternative,

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swoop
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby swoop » 27 Feb 2019, 07:29

Interesting to note that the USN is removing the carrier ATTDS.
https://strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20190225.aspx


The U.S. Navy has ordered the Anti-Torpedo Torpedo Defense System (ATTDS) removed from the five CVN (nuclear-powered aircraft carriers) it had been installed on for testing and development. The problem was that ATTDS did not perform reliably and...

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Gabriele
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Gabriele » 27 Feb 2019, 07:47

I dont know about ASRAAM, but the USMC jets have indeed open compatibility with Paveway IV with QE deployments in mind.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 27 Feb 2019, 17:22

Digger22 wrote:It's a great point, moving forward to Operations, would USMC maintainers/armourous be part of the embarked personnel? If different weapons are employed by USMC jets, I can't see an alternative,


Of course the USMC will bring their own ground support crew and weapons.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 27 Feb 2019, 17:25

Gabriele wrote:I dont know about ASRAAM, but the USMC jets have indeed open compatibility with Paveway IV with QE deployments in mind.


All F-35's can operate all weapons that version supports regardless of their nationality. There are no sub-variants except for the Israeli aircraft.

Sunk at Narvik
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Sunk at Narvik » 28 Feb 2019, 09:09

Why would the marines bring their own support crew? I thought the whole point of "interoperability" is that a US F35 can touch down on an RN carrier, get its windscreen wiped and top up without having to redeploy dozens of blokes from its own carrier.

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shark bait
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby shark bait » 28 Feb 2019, 10:28

@Sunk at Narvik How is the UK going to operate double the aircraft with the same ground crew?

(are they still called ground crew ion a carrier?)
@LandSharkUK

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 28 Feb 2019, 10:51

shark bait wrote:@Sunk at Narvik How is the UK going to operate double the aircraft with the same ground crew?

(are they still called ground crew ion a carrier?)
Aircraft Handler is the closest to ground crew in the FAA I guess, obviously they have other roles assigned such as Air controllers and Air engineers.

Sunk at Narvik
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Sunk at Narvik » 28 Feb 2019, 10:59

Does the RN only have deck crew for twelve F35's and a squadron of Merlins? What happens when they "surge"? To we say no-can-do Minister? £4bn for twelve F35's would be ridiculous.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby downsizer » 28 Feb 2019, 12:31

Sunk at Narvik wrote:Why would the marines bring their own support crew? I thought the whole point of "interoperability" is that a US F35 can touch down on an RN carrier, get its windscreen wiped and top up without having to redeploy dozens of blokes from its own carrier.


There is a load of difference between topping up some fuel on landing and running a Fwd based Sqn for an extended period of time.

They will be bringing their own maintenance personnel.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby downsizer » 28 Feb 2019, 12:32

PhillyJ wrote:
shark bait wrote:@Sunk at Narvik How is the UK going to operate double the aircraft with the same ground crew?

(are they still called ground crew ion a carrier?)
Aircraft Handler is the closest to ground crew in the FAA I guess, obviously they have other roles assigned such as Air controllers and Air engineers.


Aircraft handlers don’t maintain the aircraft.

Sqn engineering personnel (FAA, RAF, USMC) do that.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 01 Mar 2019, 09:00

MPs debate Carrier Strike strategy amidst rumours HMS Prince of Wales could be mothballed.

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/mps-de ... othballed/

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 01 Mar 2019, 12:36

downsizer wrote:Aircraft handlers don’t maintain the aircraft.
Sqn engineering personnel (FAA, RAF, USMC) do that.
Cheers Downsizer, I did wonder who did the maintenance but had no clue as you could probably tell from my 'vague/lazy' post.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 01 Mar 2019, 12:37

Poiuytrewq wrote:MPs debate Carrier Strike strategy amidst rumours HMS Prince of Wales could be mothballed.

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/mps-de ... othballed/
Question aside the actual debate was very good and well worth a watch/read/listen if you can.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 01 Mar 2019, 12:43

"Carrier strike strategy and its contribution to UK defence" (Westminster Hall Debate)
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/5 ... 97d8055efa
See 13:57:50 in video ^

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 01 Mar 2019, 12:52

PhillyJ wrote:Question aside the actual debate was very good and well worth a watch/read/listen if you can.
Agreed, it was an excellent debate.

These treasury rumours are best aired to expose the strategically non sensical proposals that pop up from time to time. I'm not taking it too seriously at this point.

Highly likely it will be a different treasury team drawing up the autumn spending review anyway.....

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Gabriele
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Gabriele » 01 Mar 2019, 17:40

Ron5 wrote:
Gabriele wrote:I dont know about ASRAAM, but the USMC jets have indeed open compatibility with Paveway IV with QE deployments in mind.


All F-35's can operate all weapons that version supports regardless of their nationality. There are no sub-variants except for the Israeli aircraft.


In theory. But that would mean that a nation, say Italy, could literally get Meteor integrated at zero expense due to the UK doing all the work. That's not how it works. To get access to the software, you still pay your share, or you don't get it.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 01 Mar 2019, 17:46

Poiuytrewq wrote: treasury rumours are best aired to expose the strategically non sensical proposals


Quite. A straight-jacket is often non-sensical... and if anyone wonders why I have posted so many times about Brexit
... the coffers are not limitless

A crisis response may be deployed

It will be partly covered from more lending... and :!: partly from cutting across all Depts

Lord Jim
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 01 Mar 2019, 22:50

This was the best debate I have seen on any defence related subject. All the speakers were very well informed and though not surprised the lack of firm commitments from the Government speaks volumes for its attitude.

If we are to become once again, a world power and be able to project our power where and when needed, the Treasury has to open its wallet plain and simple. The usual strategy of demanding efficiencies/cuts from the MoD in order to give the appearance of increases in the budget and the purchase of much needed new equipment. The hole, whatever size it actually is needs to be filled by an immediate increase in the budget. Any efficiencies that do deliver should allow the "Transformation Budget" to be expanded to be used for programmes of the type the Secretary of State mentioned during his recent speech.

The idea of a whole Governmental approach to defence is one that must be adopted. All relevant departments must be involved and bear the burden as well as reap the rewards.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 01 Mar 2019, 23:36

Gabriele wrote:
Ron5 wrote:
Gabriele wrote:I dont know about ASRAAM, but the USMC jets have indeed open compatibility with Paveway IV with QE deployments in mind.


All F-35's can operate all weapons that version supports regardless of their nationality. There are no sub-variants except for the Israeli aircraft.


In theory. But that would mean that a nation, say Italy, could literally get Meteor integrated at zero expense due to the UK doing all the work. That's not how it works. To get access to the software, you still pay your share, or you don't get it.


I think you are incorrect. If Italy wants meteor on its F-35B's, all it has to do is buy the missiles & missile support. I do not think there is an additional fee for the aircraft.

If Italy wants them on its F-35A's, there would of course be a fee for qualifying the configuration.

It's kinda like Windows, comes complete with tons of device support that you don't use until you go out and buy the actual device.

Lord Jim
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 01 Mar 2019, 23:53

The suggestion that the UK could order the C variant and return the favour for the USMC F-35Bs operating off the Queen Elizabeths, with RAF/FAA F-35Cs being deployed on a USN carrier would be intriguing.

Also the idea of the Italian air wing deploying on the RN's carriers when either one or both of their platforms are unavailable is an interesting idea.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 02 Mar 2019, 09:53

Ron5 wrote:It's kinda like Windows, comes complete with tons of device support that you don't use until you go out and buy the actual device.


Correct. They have had enough trouble with getting the 8 million lines of (overcooked?) spaghetti into one (almost) tested codeline.
- the fact that all partners are expected to pay into Block4 "surcharge" testifies for the same
- and the more you are willing to pay, the quicker "your specific things" will be delivered (so it is both a protection racket and a justification why all the US things come first)

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 02 Mar 2019, 10:48

I have said many times now that HMS POW should be seen and used as a Allied Carrier for NATO and the Far East in effect the UK would invite NATO and Five powers members to form a carrier air wing for HMS POW. I for one would have no problem with HMS QE deploying with a full British air-wing and POW deploying with say a USMC Squadron and a mixed NATO or Five Powers squadron of F-35bs plus ASW NH-90 and Crowsnest Merlin's

A NATO squadron could be made up of 4 jets from the UK , Italy and Spain to make a squadron of 12 jets. this could be added to if other F-35 NATO members were to buy a limited number of F-35b jets

A Five Powers squadron could be made up the same way if Japan and Australia were to buy some F-35bs


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