UK Defence Forum

News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
seaspear
Senior Member
Posts: 1333
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:16
Location: Australia

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 22 Feb 2019, 14:28

Why wouldn't maintenance requiring a dry dock be at Rosyth lol

User avatar
Halidon
Member
Posts: 491
Joined: 12 May 2015, 01:34
Location: United States of America

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Halidon » 22 Feb 2019, 15:10

seaspear wrote:Why wouldn't maintenance requiring a dry dock be at Rosyth lol

The linked article doesn't explicitly mention drydocking the CVs, it simply refers to the port having the depth and space to accommodate them. Duqm has a pair of rather gigantic dry docks, but it's big selling point for the RN is likely that it's a greenfield project for a massive multimodal logistics hub. Supporting a CV forward-deployed to the area will be a lot easier with that sort of facility. I would imagine the dry docks would be considered a bonus if either of the ladies had an incident in the area, or if the RN wanted something fairly minor done without having to sail all the way home, similar to how the USN uses foreign maintenance facilities.

User avatar
swoop
Member
Posts: 193
Joined: 03 May 2015, 21:25
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby swoop » 23 Feb 2019, 07:57

seaspear wrote:Why wouldn't maintenance requiring a dry dock be at Rosyth lol

Laws against "monoplies" or "anti-competitive behaviour" perhaps?
That, and sunny weather in which paint can dry properly? :D

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 10657
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 23 Feb 2019, 09:57

What has curiously escaped attention/ publicity is that a training/ logistics facility (for which branch of the Forces was left out; Joint, obviously) was agreed at the same time.

Though the carriers are the offensive fist, if ever required, a broader foot print is not a bad thing. Why would that be?

Goes back to US energy self-sufficiency and therefore waning interest in the Gulf/ ME Regions (Iran & Israel exempted, at least during this Administration). Further, the broader India Ocean Region seen with US eyes stands divided into the Central command: Middle East nations up to Pakistan, Arabian Sea and the Gulf of Aden., Africa command: East Coast of Africa, waters along the east coast from South of Somalia, Pacific command: Main Area of the ocean, but centered on India (save for the Pacific itself)
- in effect: Africa Command does not possess naval forces and the ones for Central Command are rotating through it, from the Pacific Command.

Where does this put the UK? We are not energy self-sufficient (Norway is nearby, but Qatar is not) and hence immediately vulnerable to the "Gulf going up in flames". Can we reliably figure out the intentions of the key players in the area? I doubt it
- hence having a firm foothold right next door is important
- and having a force that can be moved in and exert some influence (even if the US would decide, for the time, to sit on the fence) is essential

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 3393
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 23 Feb 2019, 12:53

I agree with the argument but not the solution. To exert the level of influence suggested we would need to have either a full brigade stationed in the region or its equipment prepositioned there. A LSG might show intent but lacks the density to achieve anything beyond its role as a SF base. The Carrier group should eventually bring with it a big punch but it can only be in one place at a time and so should not be a default option, but rather one to be used when not required elsewhere, specifically for NATO duties.

The impression I am getting is that the Government would like the carrier to be everywhere showing the UK's global reach and determination to still be a big player. The problem is we need more then two carriers to effectively do this and more aviation assets to have more than one at see in the carrier role. As it stands with the exception of the initial "Grand Tour", announced by the Defence Secretary, the single ready carrier should stay in the Atlantic with the odd one or two month detour to the Med or Indian Ocean.

Scimitar54
Member
Posts: 466
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 23 Feb 2019, 17:28

Exactly because of this conundrum I the reason why I have always believed that we (and NATO) need three x CSGs. Yes we agreed major co-operation with the French, but they then cancelled their second Carrier. If they (the French) also had 2 x CSGs, then between us we might have enough. Can we be certain that they will even replace CDG?. We know how long it has taken us to get this far and we also have an indication of how long it will take to get eveything else in place.
If we do not take the broader view (Operations outside of the NATO) area then our American cousins may be less able to contribute a CSG to the Atlantic. Then we will be likely to need "our" 2 x CSGs there instead. To maintain 2 x "operational" CSGs, we will need at least 3 of them.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 10657
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 23 Feb 2019, 18:29

Scimitar54 wrote:Can we be certain that they will even replace CDG?.
Yes, it is now only down to choice of propulsion (as it will need to be bigger, and that would take three of their 'one-size-for-all-purposes' reactors... but then EMALS would be no problem)
Scimitar54 wrote:If we do not take the broader view (Operations outside of the NATO) area then our American cousins may be less able to contribute a CSG to the Atlantic. Then we will be likely to need "our" 2 x CSGs there instead.

- that is the conundrum as their carriers can be a swing resource between the Pacific and Indian Ocean... does not apply to the Atlantic

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 5674
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
Location: England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 24 Feb 2019, 12:45

Image
(@HMSQNLZ) 22 Feb 2019
The work on our new invisibility shield is progressing well!


Image
(@HMSQNLZ) 23 Feb 2019
What’s the weather like where you are?

Little J
Member
Posts: 565
Joined: 02 May 2015, 14:35
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Little J » 24 Feb 2019, 14:12

What’s the weather like where you are?

Much the same... View isn't quite as good though :D

Ron5
Senior Member
Posts: 3558
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
Location: United States of America

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 24 Feb 2019, 19:47

Had over two inches of snow in Arizona yesterday. Absolutely amazing.

User avatar
hovematlot
Member
Posts: 245
Joined: 27 May 2015, 17:46
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby hovematlot » 24 Feb 2019, 20:32

Look like QNLZ CIP is coming to an end soon. Anyone know what she has planned next. I'm assuming she is going to sea before Westlant 19 in the summer. Maybe some FOST training?

On the subject of Westlant 19, any thoughts on the composition of the Task group? As it has a more operational bias to it I'm going for QNLZ, T45, Fort Victoria (as an interim FSSS) and a Tide AOR, along of course with 7 of 617 Squadron F-35 and associated Merlins. I'm guessing Crowsnest wont be ready..

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 1910
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby dmereifield » 24 Feb 2019, 23:29

hovematlot wrote:Look like QNLZ CIP is coming to an end soon. Anyone know what she has planned next. I'm assuming she is going to sea before Westlant 19 in the summer. Maybe some FOST training?

On the subject of Westlant 19, any thoughts on the composition of the Task group? As it has a more operational bias to it I'm going for QNLZ, T45, Fort Victoria (as an interim FSSS) and a Tide AOR, along of course with 7 of 617 Squadron F-35 and associated Merlins. I'm guessing Crowsnest wont be ready..


No T23?

Scimitar54
Member
Posts: 466
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 25 Feb 2019, 01:13

Why 7 x F35B?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 10657
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Feb 2019, 05:25

Scimitar54 wrote:Why 7 x F35B?


IOC with 12 is still ahead of us

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 3393
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 25 Feb 2019, 07:11

Where do we stand in CROWSNEST, things are vary quiet considering the fanfare about the RN regaining its carrier capability?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 10657
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Feb 2019, 08:25

Lord Jim wrote:in CROWSNEST

May be a cuckoo laid an egg in there :D and these eggs (for now, i.e. the budget) have fallen over the edge?

Scimitar54
Member
Posts: 466
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 25 Feb 2019, 09:50

ArmChairCivvy Wrote
IOC with 12 is still ahead of us


We do actually have 9 at RAF Marham. Are you suggesting that 2 of them are nothing more than Gate Guards already?

Defiance
Member
Posts: 464
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Defiance » 25 Feb 2019, 11:12

Scimitar54 wrote:ArmChairCivvy Wrote
IOC with 12 is still ahead of us


We do actually have 9 at RAF Marham. Are you suggesting that 2 of them are nothing more than Gate Guards already?


7 deployed is the official figure for Westland 19.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 10657
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Feb 2019, 11:14

Scimitar54 wrote:We do actually have 9 at RAF Marham


What I am suggesting that 60% is a "good number"
- makes for 5.4 a/c

And USAFE is "top of the class" even within the fairly well funded USAF with appr. 80% availability
- out of 9 that would be 7.2 a/c

I average those two = 6.3 a/c
- and I give Top Marks for 7 (should OCU be stopped dead in its tracks, just because something else has been scheduled?)
- how would you rate it?

Flybri
Junior Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 05 May 2015, 12:46
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Flybri » 25 Feb 2019, 12:53

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Scimitar54 wrote:We do actually have 9 at RAF Marham


What I am suggesting that 60% is a "good number"
- makes for 5.4 a/c

And USAFE is "top of the class" even within the fairly well funded USAF with appr. 80% availability
- out of 9 that would be 7.2 a/c

I average those two = 6.3 a/c
- and I give Top Marks for 7 (should OCU be stopped dead in its tracks, just because something else has been scheduled?)
- how would you rate it?


I was under the impression that the talk last year was for the final 3 for the full squadron strength were due at Marham by the end of 2018, was that just chatter or was it changed?

SW1
Member
Posts: 924
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 25 Feb 2019, 13:09

You are not ever deploying every aircraft you have at a base certainly not this one and certainly not at this point in its service life. Getting 7 deployed will be challenging enough

User avatar
hovematlot
Member
Posts: 245
Joined: 27 May 2015, 17:46
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby hovematlot » 25 Feb 2019, 13:55

Scimitar54 wrote:Why 7 x F35B?


Think it might have been Gerry Kyd that said they would be bringing 7 F-35 with them for Westland 19. Maybe beefed up at times with some USMC jets for familiarisation training.

Scimitar54
Member
Posts: 466
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 25 Feb 2019, 18:34

A Eureka Moment! The USMC beefing it up will mean that there will be more than 7 x F35B involved during trials with QE for Westlant '19. My earlier statement was that we had 9 at Marham. The unspoken part was that it may well be even more than that; at least at times. If a squadron is going to be deployed on a QEC, then it would be usual (and it is likely to be required) for all of it's serviceable aircraft to be deployed as well. The OCU comments are in reality not applicable, as the OCU's aircraft (already in use) are likely to cross the Atlantic to Norfolk UK, when training moves from the USA to Marham.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 3393
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Lord Jim » 25 Feb 2019, 19:30

IT could be one third UK and two thirds US with regards to airframes on the deployment but possibly fifty: fifty when it comes to air crew, with RAF and FAA personnel flying USMC F-35s at times.

User avatar
Old RN
Member
Posts: 188
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:39
Location: South Africa

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Old RN » 26 Feb 2019, 06:05

Given the common aircraft spec would the USMC aircraft deployed to QE use ASRAAM and PW-IV or would they have US weapons loaded into QE's magazines?


Return to “Royal Navy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: silabario and 19 guests