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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 21 Sep 2018, 15:14

As I read, the maiden flight will be USMC squadron based. May be some UKs. This is speculation, but at least I understand so.

By the way, I do not think there are any problem there? Early deployment with USMC squadron, or more delayed one with UK's. Which will be more "waste of money?".

CVF is there to be used, not for fun.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 21 Sep 2018, 16:20

One thing to note with the French numbers ect. If you deploy all your sqns for one deployment the length of time to deploy a Sqn again increases. So if you deploy your 2 sqns in year 1 your unlikely to be deploying them the following year. So it depends if you want jets on your carrier every year or every other year. Obviously if something major came up things change but it leads to longer term issues.

I would suspect an equal number of uk and us marine Corp jets on the first deployment.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SDL » 21 Sep 2018, 16:27

yeah, Equal numbers of UK & USMC 35s does seem like the most likely option. the MOD would be able to show off a 'fullly' equipped QE and at the same time promote the close interactions & co-operation between the UK & US armed forces

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 21 Sep 2018, 16:31

How about equal number of "in total of F35 and Merlin"? :D

[edit] Say, 12 USMC F35B, 2 UK F35B and 10 Merlin, for example.

By the way, I think French CV is not deploying frequently. With 48 F35Bs for a moment, I agree if RN CVTF deploys with 24 F35B with QNLZ for 6-9 months, in the next year's 6-9 months deployment of PoW, there will be only a little number of F35B onboard. May be 10-12 at most, (or even zero, as LPH).

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 21 Sep 2018, 16:57

SDL

I could see them deploying with 10 each.


Donald

I think it would be more if the QE deploys with 16 f35 for 6-9months then pow would be deploying with none. 24 is everything with wings on eg Falklands.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 21 Sep 2018, 17:03

SW1 wrote:Donald

I think it would be more if the QE deploys with 16 f35 for 6-9months then pow would be deploying with none. 24 is everything with wings on eg Falklands.
"16 F35B for 6-9 months within 12 months out of 48 F35B" means deployment ratio of 8-12%.

16*6/24/48 = 0.08, or x1.5 if with 9 months

My assumption was, 18-26% deployment ratio

(24*6+10*6)/24/48 = 0.18

How is the number in US Navy?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 21 Sep 2018, 17:20

Donald

There is 2 operational sqns with a notional 12 a/c each that’s your total fleet 24 a/c. The rest oeu, ocu, deep maintenance and attrition.

I’ve no idea what the us navy do.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Sep 2018, 17:59

SW1 wrote:I’ve no idea what the us navy do.


They maintain a Carrier Wing (one over the number of carriers) and do not play around with squadrons (the French have 3 sqrdns +1 more for the AEW, so that 1 in normal circumstances, and 2 when actually sailing out, can be there).
- our FAA/ RAF mix smacks of the French approach

And, we should not term our (tailored) air group an Air Wing, as those are NOT tailored, but standardised (so that you can swap one out, one in... and carry on)

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 21 Sep 2018, 18:19

Aethulwulf wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Can you share the source(s) of your info? Thanks.
Can I just say "work" and avoid any possible trouble for myself.


No problem at all. Thanks for the reply.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 21 Sep 2018, 18:23

donald_of_tokyo wrote:French CDG carrier deploys with
- 2001: 16 Super Etendards, 2 Rafale, 1 Hawkeye +
- 2010: 12 Super Etendards, 10 Rafale, 2 Hawkeye +
- 2012: 7 Super Etendards, 7 Rafale, 2 Hawkeye +
- 2015: 9 Super Etendards, 12 Rafale, 2 Hawkeye +
- 2015: 8 Super Etendards, 18 Rafale = 31-34 in total as "a larger than normal air wing"
- 2016: 24 Rafale +

For me, if CVF deploys with 24 F35B, 13 Merlin, and a few Wildcat, it is great enough. Merlin is not small.


The F-35 isn't small either. Might look that way in the photos but stand next to one and it's like being next to a Phantom. I think I read someplace that the F-35C is too big for CdeG.

Was out shopping at Home Depot yesterday which is under the D-M flightpath, a lot of the usual NG F-16's and then a solo F-35. Different noise so makes you look up. I couldn't tell which version from underneath but probably an F-35B from Yuma.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 21 Sep 2018, 18:28

shotleylad wrote:More USMC jets than UK. I cannot see that happening.


I'm looking forward to the V-22's, that will be quite a sight. Refueling the RM Merlins maybe?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 21 Sep 2018, 18:31

There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case? especially if the squadron is Navy?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby -Eddie- » 21 Sep 2018, 18:34

A series of interesting tweets from QE.




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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby benny14 » 21 Sep 2018, 18:40

Zero chance there are no UK jets onboard, I would say 6-8. I don't see the USMC committing a whole squadron, and certainly not for the whole tour, 4-8 with a couple helicopters and/or ospreys added on.

Ron5 wrote:There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case? especially if the squadron is Navy?

The name is really the only distinction. The first squadron 617 is manned with a 50/50 split between the RAF and FAA. The RAF and FAA will also be rotating squadron commanders, same will apply to the first FAA squadron.

SDL
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SDL » 21 Sep 2018, 18:48

I can definitely see them putting an Osprey or two onboard, if only to show the MOD how useful one or two of them might be be

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 21 Sep 2018, 18:49

[quote="Ron5"]There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case? especially if the squadron is Navy?[/quote

All f35s are owned by the RAF all sqns will be operated jointly.

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 21 Sep 2018, 19:23


Aww. :cry:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby S M H » 21 Sep 2018, 19:50

SDL wrote:I can definitely see them putting an Osprey or two onboard, if only to show the MOD how useful one or two of them might be be
Wont be a problem for the carrier to operate the Osprey's as the hanger centre section is designed to take them. A bit of forward thinking for once.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 21 Sep 2018, 21:58

I'll ask you again. There's seems to be a general assumption that deploying an F-35 squadron onto a carrier is the same as deploying an RAF squadron overseas.

Is that really the case?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby bobp » 21 Sep 2018, 22:29

Ron5 wrote:I'm looking forward to the V-22's, that will be quite a sight. Refueling the RM Merlins maybe?



hmm I saw my first CV-22 as I was driving South just over a week or so ago, I was on the A1 fairly close to RAF Leeming and Catterick. It was about three hundred feet up and was in Hover mode, and I could feel the downwash as it went overhead. Very impressed with what I saw and also it was a lot bigger than I imagined.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby benny14 » 21 Sep 2018, 23:37

Aethulwulf wrote: The carrier was designed to be capable of an initial 24 hour surge of 108 sorties (36 × 3), with a sustained rate of 72 sorties per day (36 × 2). Everything was designed around these sortie rates and an aircraft load of 36 F35b and 4 Merlin AEW.

Was wondering something. This RN graphics seems to suggest 72 is the sortie rate with 24 F-35s. Also note the C2, Magazine and Acom ratios.
Image

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 21 Sep 2018, 23:37


SDL
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SDL » 21 Sep 2018, 23:48

Flight trials this coming week? *Bounces*

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 21 Sep 2018, 23:56

They did say flight trials would be the "third week of September" didn't they?
Well, Saturday 22nd September is the final day of that third week. But there was the delay caused by Hurricane Florence, so I would guess next week ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby benny14 » 22 Sep 2018, 00:16

SKB wrote:They did say flight trials would be the "third week of September" didn't they?
Well, Saturday 22nd September is the final day of that third week. But there was the delay caused by Hurricane Florence, so I would guess next week ?

It says he is there for "under" a week. So it would suggest he will be there until Thursday the 27th. Likely wants to spend a couple days watching so my guess would be that trials start on Monday the 24th.


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