Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Dahedd
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Dahedd »

The F35b can carry external tanks as can the F22. One would assume they have been designing low obversability tanks for both aircraft?

They wouldn't use them In first stages of a conflict but even with then the rcs will be far smaller than the likes of a tornado surely ?

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

F-22 has tanks. Don't think any F-35 has got any yet.

downsizer
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by downsizer »

Ron5 wrote:F-22 has tanks. Don't think any F-35 has got any yet.
You are correct. Well done for persevering in correcting the experts on here though!

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

If they were to be fitted, they would of necessity reduce the maximum potential weapons load even if they were empty for take-off and surprise surprise you would still need A2AR after take off to get maximum fill ......... Oh! and probably on the way back as well.

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Scimitar54 wrote:If they were to be fitted, they would of necessity reduce the maximum potential weapons load even if they were empty for take-off and surprise surprise you would still need A2AR after take off to get maximum fill ......... Oh! and probably on the way back as well.
Surely you are not claiming that tanks wouldn't extend the F-35B's reach even without tankers?

Yes, tanks are not an unmixed blessing. They add drag, can limit g, can compromise LO, and can limit weapons carried, and have done since they were invented. But they do add range otherwise no aircraft would carry them, would they?

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whitelancer
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by whitelancer »

While range is good to have, its always been true that some land based aircraft will out range any Carrier borne aircraft. So what's new?

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

I was only commenting that External Tanks would not remove the need for A2AR as was suggested a few posts earlier. In any case, it will not be possible to exceed MTOW and the use of External Tanks would also reduce Pylon availability for weapons.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Defiance »

Scimitar54 wrote:In any case, it will not be possible to exceed MTOW and the use of External Tanks would also reduce Pylon availability for weapons.
Imaginary payloads don't take up any stations.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

Neither do Tankers

RetroSicotte
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by RetroSicotte »

Scimitar54 wrote:Neither do Tankers
Key point is tankers can't reach everywhere. The QE's aircraft must be capable of very long range strike without needing tanker support. Drop tanks are a key element of that. A buddy-buddy system would be the next step.

In the absence of V-22s as tankers, its the only options.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by benny14 »

From Janes:

"RNAS Yeovilton is due to receive the first four helicopters by mid-June ahead of embarkation aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth (R 08) in September. ‘A’ Flight, 845 Naval Air Squadron (NAS), operating three Commando Merlins, will take part in flying trials on the aircraft carrier working alongside RN Merlin HM2s from 820 NAS and two US Marine Corps Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter aircraft."

Is this two USMC aircraft in addition to the ones we are putting on? Or is it two USMC aircraft, operated by UK personnel? Remember that most of the test fleet is pooled between RAF/RN and USMC, and is flown by personnel from both countries.


Spinflight
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Spinflight »

RetroSicotte wrote:
Scimitar54 wrote:Neither do Tankers
Key point is tankers can't reach everywhere. The QE's aircraft must be capable of very long range strike without needing tanker support. Drop tanks are a key element of that. A buddy-buddy system would be the next step.

In the absence of V-22s as tankers, its the only options.
Why?

There aren't many places our land based tankers can't reach. Ditto our AWACS.

The thing about a carrier is you can just sail it a little bit closer.

CameronPerson
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by CameronPerson »

benny14 wrote:
Is this two USMC aircraft in addition to the ones we are putting on? Or is it two USMC aircraft, operated by UK personnel? Remember that most of the test fleet is pooled between RAF/RN and USMC, and is flown by personnel from both countries.
I’d be surpised if a UK owned trial jet wasn’t used, purely for press reasons. An FAA pilot, Nathan Grey, is believed to be making the first landing so I think it’s desireable to have ZM135, 36 or 37 be used for that. As you say the fleet is pooled so the jet’s livery doesn’t mean much to people who know this, but for the casual observer being fed news from a press ever eager to spread outrage and speculation, it matters a great deal. The MOD PR team will know this

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Gabriele
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Gabriele »

They will want instrumented aircraft for the trials, and the UK's instrumented aircraft are all on the wrong Coast. They'd have to fly across the USA all the way from Edwards, and that costs.
That's why it is pretty likely that instrumented american Daves from the Patuxent River part of the test fleet will be used. We'll see, though.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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topman
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by topman »

Gabriele wrote:They will want instrumented aircraft for the trials, and the UK's instrumented aircraft are all on the wrong Coast. They'd have to fly across the USA all the way from Edwards, and that costs.
That's why it is pretty likely that instrumented american Daves from the Patuxent River part of the test fleet will be used. We'll see, though.
I wouldn't underestimate the pr need to end up sending a tanker out to trail them across.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by topman »

RetroSicotte wrote:
Key point is tankers can't reach everywhere. The QE's aircraft must be capable of very long range strike without needing tanker support. Drop tanks are a key element of that. A buddy-buddy system would be the next step.

In the absence of V-22s as tankers, its the only options.
Not particularly, carrier a/c are well used to and plentiful visitors to tankers. There's nothing special in them using tankers it's been happening frequently for a long time and will no doubt continue for many years to come.

Buddy buddy systems add very little to range, simply not large enough to off load enough fuel. Useful in narrow specific circumstances but that's it.

benny14
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by benny14 »

Gabriele wrote:They will want instrumented aircraft for the trials, and the UK's instrumented aircraft are all on the wrong Coast. They'd have to fly across the USA all the way from Edwards, and that costs.
That's why it is pretty likely that instrumented american Daves from the Patuxent River part of the test fleet will be used. We'll see, though.
I agree, however the PR of having USMC labelled jets land on QE first will be insane. Most likely worth it to fly the UK ones across to the east coast.

dmereifield
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

topman wrote:
Gabriele wrote:They will want instrumented aircraft for the trials, and the UK's instrumented aircraft are all on the wrong Coast. They'd have to fly across the USA all the way from Edwards, and that costs.
That's why it is pretty likely that instrumented american Daves from the Patuxent River part of the test fleet will be used. We'll see, though.
I wouldn't underestimate the pr need to end up sending a tanker out to trail them across.
You can see the headlines "confirming" yet again that because we have no aircraft for the carrier we had to borrow some from the yanks...
However, given the incompetence of HMG in the general sense, not just in terms of PR, the but the continuous self foot shooting, on important issues you can't imagine they'd care or understand (for better or worse) the bad PR here which is essential a trivial issue

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imperialman
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by imperialman »

Gabriele wrote:They will want instrumented aircraft for the trials, and the UK's instrumented aircraft are all on the wrong Coast. They'd have to fly across the USA all the way from Edwards, and that costs.
That's why it is pretty likely that instrumented american Daves from the Patuxent River part of the test fleet will be used. We'll see, though.
Was told that as most of the F-35Bs in Joint Operational Test are American (the UK only have BK1, 2 & 4 that are 'orange wired' to take data for post-flight analysis) it is highly likely that the jets to go on QNLZ later this year "will be mostly, if not entirely, American" but flown by UK pilots. Also told that "it may change between now and then".

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

What's worse: USMC marked aircraft or an RAF pilot?

Spinflight
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Spinflight »

Could be worse...

Could be an RAF pilot.

CameronPerson
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by CameronPerson »

Ron5 wrote:What's worse: USMC marked aircraft or an RAF pilot?
Speculation is that we’ll have the crabs make the first take off while FAA get landing rights.. RAF are offering up Sqn Ldr Andy Edgell, a former JFH pilot and currently the Lead Test Pilot for ship trials (LinkedIn never lies).. a crab in charge!.. Makes you wonder what the late great Eric ‘Winkle’ Brown would have made of that.. What has the RN come to ;)

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british ... -aircraft/

Little J
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Little J »

So British pilots, a couple of American planes and a few RN/RAF stickers from Halfords. Job done! :thumbup:

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

RetroSicotte Wrote: Key point is tankers can't reach everywhere. The QE's aircraft must be capable of very long range strike without needing tanker support. Drop tanks are a key element of that. A buddy-buddy system would be the next step.

In the absence of V-22s as tankers, its the only options.
Question. What would an F35B become, once fitted with a refuelling rig?
Answer. A Tanker! .............. It may also have External Tanks (once available) in order to increase the available fuel for transfer.

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