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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Tempest414
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 24 Apr 2018, 06:15

shark bait wrote:
Poiuytrewq wrote:I can't see any additional LPH's or LPD's being built before the Albions are replaced...

...The cheapest way to solve the lack of landing spots in the amphibious fleet in the short to medium term is the MARS programme in my view


Yes there is going to be no new carrier until the Albion replacement.

However can we really say there is a lack of spots? The RN have 2 very big carriers and not many jets...


as we know the Albion's OSD is 2030 so as you say 10 year from now 2028 we will need 1 or 2 LPD,s in build to replace them or lose that capability. As for the carriers not being troop ship this was made very clear in a defence select committee meeting live on TV last year

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 24 Apr 2018, 07:19

Tempest414 wrote:...as we know the Albion's OSD is 2030 so as you say 10 year from now 2028 we will need 1 or 2 LPD,s in build to replace them or lose that capability. As for the carriers not being troop ship this was made very clear in a defence select committee meeting live on TV last year

The out of service dates for Albion and Bulwark is 2033 and 2034 respectively.

It's really comes down to what extra capacity (if any) does the fleet need to properly conduct amphibious operations between now and the expected out of service dates of Albion and Bulwark.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 24 Apr 2018, 08:24

Poiuytrewq wrote: 2033 and 2034 respectively.

It's really comes down to what extra capacity (if any) does the fleet need to properly conduct amphibious operations between now and the expected


Exactly. Consider further what new designs (T31 designs, still competing, counted as "done") will be built between now and then.
- the answer is that any yawning gaps will be plugged by FSS (design); or not at all
- the gap , in my mind, is not the number of spots... but rather having enough medium/ heavy helicopters to use the "spots" to the full (whether for the initial landing, when concurrency is the issue, or for the subsequent supplying, moving e.g. artillery between positions further inland or simply having enough Medivac to cover lifting out from many LZs at the same time)

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 24 Apr 2018, 11:07

The FSS's are going to be needed to carry out the role they are being built for and that will leave little extra real capability as apart of a amphib group. up until 2005 when Invincible was paid off the Navy had 4 flat tops for me this means that even with 3 carriers the navy felt they needed a LHP a ship built for moving troops we also add to this they felt the need to add the Albion's by 2004. For me this points to the need to replace the Albion's at there OSD if we are to keep a true Amphib capability and for me the only real way to do this is to replace the Albion's and Ocean with 2 LHD's

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 24 Apr 2018, 22:00

Tempest414 wrote:For me this points to the need to replace the Albion's at there OSD if we are to keep a true Amphib capability


No doubt that at OSD "something" will need to be done. Even the NSS [doc] says so.

Howabout the question about what can be done between now and then?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Poiuytrewq » 24 Apr 2018, 22:31

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Howabout the question about what can be done between now and then?
shark bait wrote:
Poiuytrewq wrote:The original MARS SSS vessels would carry on as normal. I am proposing adding 2 extra vessels to the MARS SSS order so a total of 5. One of which would replace Argus.

That is similar to the original plan which called for two support vessels for carrier logistics, and three sea bases for amphibious logistics and medical care. For lack of money those two types got rolled into one.
Maybe the original plan needs revisited?

The concepts for the FSS ships are impressive but maybe they are trying to cram too much onto one hull?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Tempest414 » 25 Apr 2018, 07:36

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:For me this points to the need to replace the Albion's at there OSD if we are to keep a true Amphib capability


No doubt that at OSD "something" will need to be done. Even the NSS [doc] says so.

Howabout the question about what can be done between now and then?


If it is just a question of landing spots then POW will be fine as long as we keep the Albion's. How ever for me the idea of making type 31 130 m and giving them a flex deck and a hangar for 2 Merlin's win's as it would give the RN flexibility and if the Albion's are replaced with LHD's a better Amphib group

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby shark bait » 25 Apr 2018, 07:36

It is feasible to put all that one one hull.

Fort Victoria has a triple hangar, big flight deck, and big wet stores in addition to the dry stores. The replacement will have no wet stores, which frees up some space for something else.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Apr 2018, 08:37

Tempest414 wrote:If it is just a question of landing spots then POW will be fine as long as we keep the Albion's.


As per the discussion, it is not. It is a question of having enough spots and them aligning with the location of "assets" - be they material or men - to be lifted, while achieving enough concurrency (hence the ferry function, on the cheap) without compromising the primary role of the carrier

- did not append the usual (s) to the end of "carrier" as plans based on ideal availability seldom come to be realised "as it happens for real"

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 25 Apr 2018, 15:20

Alright, guys. We're focusing a little too much on replenishment ships, rather than what this topic is intended for - the carriers. Unless your discussion is in the context of the carriers, please move it to one of the topics linked below:
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=131
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=24&start=615

_____

One of my favourite shots from Britain's Biggest Warship.

Image

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Gabriele
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Gabriele » 25 Apr 2018, 15:50

A way to watch the documentary even from outside the UK would be something i'd really welcome...
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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Halidon
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Halidon » 25 Apr 2018, 16:18

Gabriele wrote:A way to watch the documentary even from outside the UK would be something i'd really welcome...

A lot of BBC stuff ends up on YouTube in a less-than-official manner. For example, try putting this after the that website's .com and see what happens: /watch?v=3TUvDnax2Fk

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 25 Apr 2018, 17:57

Gabriele wrote:A way to watch the documentary even from outside the UK would be something i'd really welcome...


Youtube has pulled the links...but if you go to www.dailymotion.com and search for 'Britains Biggest Warship' you should be able to get Episode 2 at the least.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Zealot » 25 Apr 2018, 21:49

If you are on Google Chrome use this; https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... meio?hl=en - Switch to a UK server and go onto BBC.co.uk

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 26 Apr 2018, 01:38

Why is it that this kind of theft is deemed to be OK?

Just asking.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 26 Apr 2018, 05:34

This is a young forum, but those hankering after Hornets, to get the carrier job done quickly (and with conventional take-off/ arrested landing) would see the trials towards the end of this year... and by next Feb there will not be a single legacy Hornet left in the USN front line:

Stars and Stripes 20 Apr 2018 By Caitlin Doornbos[:]

It's the end of an era for the Navy's F/A-18C Hornet; officials announced the jet's recently completed deployment aboard the USS Carl Vinson was its last

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 26 Apr 2018, 09:52

I fail to understand the relevance of F/A-18 Hornets and the USN in a Royal Navy QE class carrier forum. Ffs... :roll: :evil:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby RetroSicotte » 26 Apr 2018, 10:03

SKB wrote:I fail to understand the relevance of F/A-18 Hornets and the USN in a Royal Navy QE class carrier forum. Ffs... :roll: :evil:


It was a popular thing for people to say the QE shoulda just gone with legacy Hornets for simplicity, because people thought the F-35 was a lemon.

His post is making it clear how poor a choice that would have been now the legacy Hornet is basically gone from the USN.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Qwerty » 26 Apr 2018, 10:04

ArmChairCivvy wrote:those hankering after Hornets


Sharkey?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Scimitar54 » 26 Apr 2018, 11:37

Super Hornets are not though :wave:

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 26 Apr 2018, 12:46

Ron5 wrote:Why is it that this kind of theft is deemed to be OK?

Just asking.

It isn't supposed to be but the rule against piracy and warez must have been removed by mistake in one of the rule revisions. I've added it back though.

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cockneyjock1974
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby cockneyjock1974 » 26 Apr 2018, 13:20

Can somebody stick episode 2 on YouTube. I’m in Spain and can’t watch it.

Ps mp.net had a huge following of going for legacy hornets and CATOBAR, myself included. But that was when the B was close to being shelved and we were told only one carrier. For me the Dave B having a similar range to to the F18C was the crossover point.

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cockneyjock1974
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby cockneyjock1974 » 26 Apr 2018, 13:30

Why has my post been edited without notification?

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shark bait
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby shark bait » 26 Apr 2018, 13:50

brand new carrier with a 90's aircraft?
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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 26 Apr 2018, 13:52

Episode 2 of Britain's Biggest Warship is still on the official BBC iPlayer for another 26 days (ends 22 May).

"In At The Deep End" - Series 1, Episode 2.
After eight years in build, HMS Queen Elizabeth embarks on dangerous sea trials in the North Sea. The 700 sailors on board have to test everything on the ship for the first time - from galleys to guns and from power plants to propellers. What is the super carrier's top speed? How manoeuvrable is she and how stable in rough waters?

Meanwhile, the ship's company start the process of becoming a sea-born community. On board is chef Mohamad Khan, who has to work out how to prepare pork dishes without offending his religion, able seaman Ricky Gleeson, who had 49 convictions before he was 21, and Dave Garraghty, the most senior non-commissioned officer on board, with a passion for car boot sales.

After four days at sea, the first aircraft lands on the flight deck and all seems well, but then there is an explosion in a cooling plant, a fuel leak that sprays everyone with diesel and the ship's rubbish disposal system goes wrong. There are also strange knocking sounds coming from underneath the ship.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b11bb1


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