Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[RetroSicotte]

Good grief, that last one makes her size all too clear

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

Blimey, imagine coming into port at this speed!

[SKB]

[Enigmatically]

Two islands reduce wind turbulence?

Color me extremely doubtful. Such large and oddly shaped islands must be a nightmare. The only saving grace being the width of the deck.

No, really.

IIRC It was in fact the aerodynamics boys who mooted the change and showed its advantages for that field. Albeit that once they had a lot of other teams expressed the other advantages.

As has been said, it does of course depend on what you compare it with, and it should be noted that the RN traditionally likes more island real estate than the the USN does, for a number of reasons

[SKB]

[abc123]

As has been said, it does of course depend on what you compare it with, and it should be noted that the RN traditionally likes more island real estate than the the USN does, for a number of reasons

Care to further clarify this?

[DaveyB]

A simple question:

Will QE and PoW be fitted with a crash barrier? The reason for asking is what would happen if the F35B suffered a lift fan door malfunction and is out at sea out reach of land. Is the ship's runway long enough to carry out a conventional landing (don't think so) can the aircraft still function its variable exhaust to shorten the landing? Pretty certain the aircraft does not have an arrestor hook as per the C model. So would the pilot elect to join the martin-baker club or ditch - so what would be the plan?

[Digger22]

Great footage of QE with Tidespring over on that Thread. Is it just me or does the Anchor recess look open to local slamming? If you watch the video, it's not the roughest of sea states yet those Anchor nests get very wet!
Also she looks far more stable than Tidespring, as you would expect being the bigger ship, wonder if the stabilisers are out?

[Ron5]

Two islands reduce wind turbulence?

Color me extremely doubtful. Such large and oddly shaped islands must be a nightmare. The only saving grace being the width of the deck.

No, really.

IIRC It was in fact the aerodynamics boys who mooted the change and showed its advantages for that field. Albeit that once they had a lot of other teams expressed the other advantages.

As has been said, it does of course depend on what you compare it with, and it should be noted that the RN traditionally likes more island real estate than the the USN does, for a number of reasons

Exactly. Seems obvious they were comparing the two islands to one massive island like in the Bae CVF proposal. I'll bet a month of your salary that the QE has worse airflow than the Gerald Ford.

[grimbob]

During all the tests, helicopters equipped with special sensors were used to record data on each landing. Commander Matt Grindon, who led the trials team on the ship, said: ‘We’ve been learning about the wind patterns on deck, this is a new design of ship and the way wind moves across the deck and affects flying is something that we’ve focused on in these trials. ‘Whilst turbulence is normal, one of my pilots has described it as the ‘Hand of God’ grabbing you and pushing you down onto the ship, which obviously requires a big power demand to stop the aircraft descending, so that’s given us some interesting insight.

Read more at: https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defen ... -1-8395314

[SKB]

(Photo: @SouthseaLiving )

QNLZ at Princess Royal Jetty, Portsmouth (1 March 2018)

[Enigmatically]

Exactly. Seems obvious they were comparing the two islands to one massive island like in the Bae CVF proposal. I'll bet a month of your salary that the QE has worse airflow than the Gerald Ford.

Safe in the knowledge that even if you are wrong, I can't prove it with publicly available data.

Suffice to say that there is of course no single turbulence figure, and it depends on where you measure it. Get into the detail then GRF and QEC can each claim to be better than the other in some respects.

Just like most other aspects*



* though of course we all know that QEC is the better carrier design overall, right. Absolutely

[ArmChairCivvy]

of course we all know that QEC is the better carrier design overall, right. Absolutely

Well, bang for the buck: yes
- Italians did a good job with theirs, but outside the Med it is sub-size for serious operations (bobbing up and down by the Somalian coast for 6 mths, with some Laguna guys onboard and in comfort, was one of the scenarios included in the planning, but that sort of thing falls outside the "hot war" scenarios and capability/ capacity required)

[DaveyB]

The limitation to the design of the ship has been governed by how it is powered. If the ships were to be nuclear, I bet they would have had a single island. However, due to the costs (apparently?) the ships had to run on oil. To ensure that they could sustain battle damage the engines have been widely separated. Therefore the exhausts for the MT30s and diesel engines have directed the twin island design rather than combine the exhausts into a single outlet with lots of extra trunking.

[CameronPerson]

The limitation to the design of the ship has been governed by how it is powered. If the ships were to be nuclear, I bet they would have had a single island. However, due to the costs (apparently?) the ships had to run on oil.

Cost AND common sense meant nuclear propulsion was off the drawing board..

1) the UK have never put a reactor in any other ship than a sub so no experience
2) they would have had to redesign and test aspects of either the PWR2 or 3 reactors adding substantial costs.
3) there’s no facility in the UK big enough to refuel a reactor on a QE
4) the amount of ports it could enter would be restricted
5) you add huge cost when it comes to decommissioning the ships. Look at our laidup subs for an idea on how we’re getting on..
6) as Jerry Kydd said, you’re going to do a RAS to receive aviation fuel anyway so it’s no hardship in attaching an extra line for fuel for the ship.

I think the only real factor that might swing in favour of nuclear is the fact that you’ve got more space for aviation fuel but at the end of the day, RN carriers have managed for 100 years now

[CameronPerson]

[SKB]

[CameronPerson]

No one show the Daily Mail.. it’ll say it’s the leak

[SKB]

IIRC, they tested the other sides chutes in the Rosyth basin during fitout.

[jimthelad]

It would appear that the hidden safety and design features may make this the most survivable and all weather operable Western carrier yet. STORVL ops have a wider weather tolerance than CATOBAR or STOBAR anyway.

As an aside, does anyone have any data on that Kinzhal missile. Mach 10 hyperglide seems a bit out of reach for the Russians with respect to guidance and homing. Surely at that speed thermal blanking and possibly plasma shielding for RF become an issue. Nasa has been trying for years with propulsion and the SABRE engine seems to be the only one able to operate in air breathing mode for any duration. If it does work then Putin can go where the hell he likes.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

A Dragon protecting a Queen!

[Wrekin1410]

No one show the Daily Mail.. it’ll say it’s the leak

Below for anyone interested are links to the LSA website. LSA being the Australian company who supplied the MES. The first refers directly to the test made in Rosyth last October and the second a more general link on the equipment itself.

http://www.lsames.com/news/successfull- ... ft-carrier

http://www.lsames.com/products/marine-e ... ystems-mes

[Ron5]

Exactly. Seems obvious they were comparing the two islands to one massive island like in the Bae CVF proposal. I'll bet a month of your salary that the QE has worse airflow than the Gerald Ford.

Safe in the knowledge that even if you are wrong, I can't prove it with publicly available data.

Suffice to say that there is of course no single turbulence figure, and it depends on where you measure it. Get into the detail then GRF and QEC can each claim to be better than the other in some respects.

Just like most other aspects*



* though of course we all know that QEC is the better carrier design overall, right. Absolutely

You're the one claiming two island supremacy not me dude. You're the one that wrote that the "aerodynamics boys" claimed its advantages. Presumably the girls disagreed? Anyhow, I'm just sitting here expressing my skepticism.

There's enough good design in the QE's that there's no reason to start claiming questionable crap.

[Wrekin1410]

[abc123]

It would appear that the hidden safety and design features may make this the most survivable and all weather operable Western carrier yet. STORVL ops have a wider weather tolerance than CATOBAR or STOBAR anyway.

As an aside, does anyone have any data on that Kinzhal missile. Mach 10 hyperglide seems a bit out of reach for the Russians with respect to guidance and homing. Surely at that speed thermal blanking and possibly plasma shielding for RF become an issue. Nasa has been trying for years with propulsion and the SABRE engine seems to be the only one able to operate in air breathing mode for any duration. If it does work then Putin can go where the hell he likes.

Yes, I'm also a bit suspicious about that Mach 10 figure, but that's maybe just peak speed. In general, that missile seems like MIRV put on a booster. Booster probably gives her speed ( maybe even mach 10, who knows ) and after that that MIRV goes on some sort of ballistic trajectory ( probably way slower than Mach 10, because of low height ), with ( presumabley ) some sort of final maneuver before hitting the target, to disrupt CIWS and similar sistems.
At least, these are my 2 pennies.
But maybe I'm speaking nonsences.