Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[Pymes75]

I can't imagine removing the Nuke Deterrent money from the MOD budget is going to help with maintaining that 2% commitment...

[SDL]

[SKB]

I'd been wondering why sea level in Portsmouth Harbour has been lower than usual....

[abc123]

Don't know, but if they want carrier and all that goes with it, then they will need to increase their defence spending...

Why?
Technically speaking they are in a better situation than the UK, they could either clean sheet design a new carrier or modify the Izumo Class with an angle led deck and place steam cats on her.

They all ready have the aircraft in the current inventory to place on a strike carrier with 71 F4 Phantom II plus 13 E2C AWACS with E2D advanced Hawkeyes on order, don't think it would take the Japanese very long to modify the Izumo to around 45-50t, these also have backup with E767 AEW @ KC 767 tanker aircraft.

Don't underestimate the Japanese defence force it leaves UK in the shade.But then Japanese stratigic situation is totally different from UK.

https://thediplomat.com/2015/03/after-t ... pans-navy/

Well, you can do the same thing with QE-class ( put catapults on her ) and take old FAA/RAF Phantoms to fly from her. But who would have done that, why and how much would that cost?

At very least, they will need nuclear attack submarines, because SSKs can't really follow the carriers around. And that allready means cost x 2-3. Plus, buying F-35Bs or C-variant if CATOBAR. Not to mention training of these crews to operate from carrier.

[abc123]

The Japanese could put steam cats on a modified Izumo and fly Phantoms?
Srsly?

Nothing stopping them either
After all you guys did it with Midway class

I don't think Japan will get a CATOBAR carrier. We all know it is very expensive. Also we are confronting PLA's hundred of cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and land-based Suhois. No extra money to spend on assets which is vulnerable to attack from these huge amount of anti-ship missiles. We are buying F35A, and locating them on the ground will be much more cheap, effective, and attack-tolerant.

CV is too much a HVU for Japan, I guess.

About that, with bolded in mind, wouldn't B-version have more sense?

[donald_of_tokyo]

Well actully it's for those very reasons a large strike carrier would be in Japanese interest, it's mobile and negates a lot of the problem being tied to a fixed position.
It's not easy finding a CBG in the deep blue unlike a fixed base infrastructure.

Do not agree, sorry.
(1) With modern spy-satellites in orbit, CV location will be almost real-time monitored. Japan do not have satellite-killer enabler.
(2) We are NOT interested in the vast Pacific ocean. The place we want to fight is around Japan. It is only when we are going to send these CV to, say, Indian ocean to attack enemy sea-lanes.

CV is too much a HVU for Japan, I guess.

And the Izumo class & Hyuga are not?

One of the highest threat is submarine. Izumo and Hyuga are specialist ASW assets. Yes they are HVU, but much cheaper than QEC+strike air wing, so that we can operate 4 of them, in rotation. Also, strike air-wing requires huge logistic support on F35's fuel, bomb, and missiles. Using Izumo/Hyuga for strike will be very less efficient.

Operating a few F35Bs from those DDHs are sometimes discussed (of course not officially, just by analysts). For reconnaissance, yes it will have big merit. F35 is a sensor monster. For air defense operating like the SeaHarrier, it will be also useful, because F35B can beat any Sukhoi at the moment. For strike, the DDH's hull will be too small.

But, DDHs are our prime ASW asset. And I'm afraid ASW threat will never disappear. So, there will be not much chance to use DDHs for AAW.

[R686]

(1) With modern spy-satellites in orbit, CV location will be almost real-time monitored. Japan do not have satellite-killer enabler.

That also goes for the rest of the JMSDF fleet, your not going to restrict operational capability. The US has an ASAT capability but its debateable if it can destroy the Gaofen family of satellite due to the high orbits

(2) We are NOT interested in the vast Pacific ocean. The place we want to fight is around Japan. It is only when we are going to send these CV to, say, Indian ocean to attack enemy sea-lanes.

Do you have access to any forward deployed airbases to provide fleet protection when operating out of area?

One of the highest threat is submarine. Izumo and Hyuga are specialist ASW assets. Yes they are HVU, but much cheaper than QEC+strike air wing, so that we can operate 4 of them, in rotation. Also, strike air-wing requires huge logistic support on F35's fuel, bomb, and missiles. Using Izumo/Hyuga for strike will be very less efficient.

But, DDHs are our prime ASW asset. And I'm afraid ASW threat will never disappear. So, there will be not much chance to use DDHs for AAW

Agree on the sub threat and the use of the vessels as a sub hunter killer task group as per your conops ,

[Little J]

Just seen a report on the news that QE is leaking (rubber seal on prop shaft)...

Did you know that she cost £3bn to build (I'm sure glad that they refreshed my memory)

[SDL]

Oh yeah.... if you look at some sites & posters on social media, she's already at the bottom of Pompy harbour...

[Smokey]

Lucky she’s got no airwing otherwise she’d sink a lot quicker!

[CameronPerson]

Just seen a report on the news that QE is leaking (rubber seal on prop shaft)...

Did you know that she cost £3bn to build (I'm sure glad that they refreshed my memory)

Was this report done by a certain BBC? It’s so unlike them to help spread outrage at their cost and focus on little else!

[Little J]

Surprisingly it was ITN but I'm sure auntie wasn't far behind

[2HeadsBetter]

Haven't seen the beeb coverage but ITN did at least - grudgingly and right at the end of the piece - admit that taxpayers would not be fitting the bill. BTW all you lubbers out there - ALL boats leak.

[S M H]

If the rubber is the seal from the shaft to the mechanical seal inner the shaft will have to be split so as the rubber o ring can be fitted between the shaft and the turning part of the seal, As the inner part of the seal turns with the propeller shaft they usually don't leak but are known to weep if damaged. Propeller impact probable cause . When they leak its only like badly worn traditional greased packing stern gland. Ships usually can run till alongside for repair. This could be a side effect of the propeller problems that caused the extended stay at Invergordon.

[Little J]

That was my first thought. They also said it was letting in 200 litres an hour (as I'm one of the lubbers ), is that a normal amount for this sort of fault?

[R686]

That was my first thought. They also said it was letting in 200 litres an hour (as I'm one of the lubbers ), is that a normal amount for this sort of fault?

They say 200l per hour is 1x 44gallon drum, if the pumps can't deal with that you have more problems than a shaft seal,

In a real DC situation you will be dealing with a lot more than that. I remember watching a show on fox about enlistment training on fox from memory the DRIU would let in about 1/2000ltrs per min a bit more than the 200ltrs

[CameronPerson]

The BBC coverage featured very much the usual phrases; “hugely controversial”, “hugely embarrassing”, “late and over budget”, “no aircraft as yet”, “can they be justified in an age of austerity”, “Britain trying to justify its place”, “showpiece” etc etc. Things that self professed experts on Twitter love to jump on when arguing that Britain is clinging onto its imperial legacy and only they’re right and they don’t need any basic understanding of naval operations to come to that conclusion.. in other news though.

Here’s the full commissioning ceremony available on YouTube and very crucially none of the guests don lifejackets at any point!

[R686]

This from another forum, I think sums it up rather nicely.

Of course we all remember the issues with the last large European carrier to be built. Charles De Gaulle. Radio activity issues, propellers that snapped in operation and required props off Foch, a flight deck 14 ft too small.. 20% budget overrun. Vibration issues etc.

Look at the issues the RAN are dealing with on the LHD.

A small leak hardly seems catastrophic. If that is all there is they have done very well.

Thanks stingrayoz

[Lord Jim]

Pretty bad reporting by the press but at least they mentioned to issues with the F-35 and that the Queen Elizabeth will no be combat effective until 2022.

[QEC Eye in the SKY]

Well, at least the 'leak' didn't stop the carol service on board QNLZ!!

[abc123]

The BBC coverage featured very much the usual phrases; “hugely controversial”, “hugely embarrassing”, “late and over budget”, “no aircraft as yet”, “can they be justified in an age of austerity”, “Britain trying to justify its place”, “showpiece” etc etc. Things that self professed experts on Twitter love to jump on when arguing that Britain is clinging onto its imperial legacy and only they’re right and they don’t need any basic understanding of naval operations to come to that conclusion.. in other news though.

Well, if they had said "airplanes" instead of "aircrafts" they wouldn't be wrong at all...

[inch]

with the media sensationalising the qe carrier issue (slight ingress of water thru a seal) was just reading about c de gaulle carrier when they working up and their issues ,they have overcome any problems to now have a great carrier ,the only draw back that it should have been 2 carriers and pa2 thales/qe derivative to boot .ahh well still really looking forward to seeing 2 very similar sized similar power projection (40 aircraft each )capability euro carriers together (yes I know that c de gaulle has better aew capabilities before someone complains but still very similar carriers tbh not like a huge American capability carrier)will be great photo and a good euro power projection,hopefully in 2019 maybe .

[indeid]

The BBC coverage featured very much the usual phrases; “hugely controversial”, “hugely embarrassing”, “late and over budget”, “no aircraft as yet”, “can they be justified in an age of austerity”, “Britain trying to justify its place”, “showpiece” etc etc. Things that self professed experts on Twitter love to jump on when arguing that Britain is clinging onto its imperial legacy and only they’re right and they don’t need any basic understanding of naval operations to come to that conclusion.. in other news though.

Well, if they had said "airplanes" instead of "aircrafts" they wouldn't be wrong at all...

Aeroplanes surely

[Digger22]

Not sure where QE comes into' Euro' power projection, whatever that is?

[Zero Gravitas]

Beeb's reporting of the "leak" was frustrating.

It was suggestive of either cluelessness or an agenda.

"highly embarrassing" was the bit that got me.

On the plus side they had a Have Your Say on the article and all the most up-voted comments were along the lines of it being a pretty weird / ignorant thing to highlight.

Presumably half of those comments were you lot.