Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[seaspear]

Plenty of advertising space available on side of ship to reduce running costs lol

[Aethulwulf]

Haggis isn't something's stomach silly.

You catch haggis.

A lot of haggis is farmed these days. Some say it doesn't have the same subtle flavours that you get with wild haggis but I think it's fine.

[jimthelad]

Yes they have also bred out the longer leg on one side to allow for housing in flat landscapes. This has led to problems when anti-vivisectionists etc have released captive Haggi into the wild and inevitable cross breeding with wild types. Sadly we in the veterinary profession do not yet have the answer.

[Phil R]

It is a shame the lowland haggis became extinct, it's ability to hover avoided any issues associated with it's leg length.

[The Armchair Soldier]

[SKB]

Anyone know of any news or information of when Portsmouth's Victory Jetty will be upgraded for a second carrier? Victory Jetty is only 9 metres deep and cannot presently berth another carrier.

[cockneyjock1974]

Anyone know of any news or information of when Portsmouth's Victory Jetty will be upgraded for a second carrier? Victory Jetty is only 9 metres deep and cannot presently berth another carrier.

Yes

[SKB]

Dutch Royal Navy's Karel Doorman berthed today at Victory Jetty, Portsmouth, before it heads to Saint Marten.

[Adam]

Are the carriers built to naval shock standards and will they undergo shock testing?

[seaspear]

I dont believe they undergo the same shock testing as U.S.N ships which would make a great picture , e.g. large nearby plume of water near carrier , and lots of sensors registering impact inside ship

[R686]

Well I'll say one thing, when it comes to paying the carriers off and if they don't get sold to another country I hope one becomes a museum piece and the other a dive wreck. But I won't be around to see it happen

[2HeadsBetter]

"But I won't be around to see it happen" - Have more faith in the RAF

[Opinion3]

I think the Landrover / Jaguar story and that of the ACA alliance provide an interesting business and engineering comparison.

Back in the 80's and 90's they were both a rather sad story. Their finished product and workforce was misguided and aging.

With investment, a better understand on how to be successful and a story that is going from strength to strength it sort of gains a momentum of its own.

[Enigmatically]

Did he just say I was ageing even in the 80s and 90s? I must be well decrepit now then

[albedo]

I think the Landrover / Jaguar story and that of the ACA alliance provide an interesting business and engineering comparison.....With investment, a better understand on how to be successful and a story that is going from strength to strength it sort of gains a momentum of its own.

While JLR design and marketing has got a lot better in recent years, the same can't be said for their quality/reliability/dealer standards, by all accounts. Just look at eg an F-Pace forum and see the level of issues there. Hopefully this isn't a parallel to ACA.

[Opinion3]

Interesting point. I am not sure we hear about reliability issues.....

There are issues but they seem to be clouded in a cloak of secrecy and blamed as a design issue. T45 overheating (money saved by conducting computer simulations and shutting down a testing facility), Astute lack of speed (I assume this is due to a lack of power but no idea really), Foxhound overheating and reliability (do these things go through the same sort of hot / cold testing as a BMW?)

[Opinion3]

Did he just say I was ageing even in the 80s and 90s? I must be well decrepit now then

Well yes I did sort of, but more in reference to an aging industry and workforce struggling to cope with a changing economic landscape. I find it incredible just how much industry we have lost, and how few of my friends or family actually make anything....

A trip to the North just illustrates how clever some of the engineers were, particularly the Scots.

[seaspear]

Did he just say I was ageing even in the 80s and 90s? I must be well decrepit now then

Well yes I did sort of, but more in reference to an aging industry and workforce struggling to cope with a changing economic landscape. I find it incredible just how much industry we have lost, and how few of my friends or family actually make anything....

A trip to the North just illustrates how clever some of the engineers were, particularly the Scots.

Man when your in a hole you just keep digging don,t you LOL

[Enigmatically]

Did he just say I was ageing even in the 80s and 90s? I must be well decrepit now then

Well yes I did sort of, but more in reference to an aging industry and workforce struggling to cope with a changing economic landscape. I find it incredible just how much industry we have lost, and how few of my friends or family actually make anything....

I find it incredible how common this myth is.

UK Manufacturing output has increased in real terms since WWII and continues. For example


All that has happened in the meantime is that the Service industries have in increased even faster so as a % of GDP it has decline.

In the meantime our manufacturing has oriented more to the high tech high value added end:
Space; cars (including of course racing cars); aerospace; pharmacueticals; defence.
The UK is a very big player in all of those and others.

[R686]

Did he just say I was ageing even in the 80s and 90s? I must be well decrepit now then

Well yes I did sort of, but more in reference to an aging industry and workforce struggling to cope with a changing economic landscape. I find it incredible just how much industry we have lost, and how few of my friends or family actually make anything....

I find it incredible how common this myth is.

UK Manufacturing output has increased in real terms since WWII and continues. For example


All that has happened in the meantime is that the Service industries have in increased even faster so as a % of GDP it has decline.

In the meantime our manufacturing has oriented more to the high tech high value added end:
Space; cars (including of course racing cars); aerospace; pharmacueticals; defence.
The UK is a very big player in all of those and others.

UK manufacturing has decreased in real terms since the end of WW2, but as you say what is left is high end and with automation the value has increased to the detriment of the workforce

[Zero Gravitas]

E's graph is in real terms. It's in fixed prices.

[albedo]

E's graph is in real terms. It's in fixed prices.

Well, yes, but it would make things considerably clearer if: (1) the chart covered eg 1945-2017 (as implied by the text in the post and not 1959-2007, chosen who knows why?); and (2) showed total economic growth in addition, so that the progressively decreasing proportion of GDP attributable to manufacturing showed up clearly.

Yes, sorry, I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but it's right at the heart of why the defence budget is going to be under such severe strain in the years to come - we've hardly seen the start of it as yet IMO.

[Zero Gravitas]

E's graph is in real terms. It's in fixed prices.

Well, yes, but it would make things considerably clearer if: (1) the chart covered eg 1945-2017 (as implied by the text in the post and not 1959-2007, chosen who knows why?); and (2) showed total economic growth in addition, so that the progressively decreasing proportion of GDP attributable to manufacturing showed up clearly.

Yes, sorry, I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but it's right at the heart of why the defence budget is going to be under such severe strain in the years to come - we've hardly seen the start of it as yet IMO.

Not sure it's quite that easy to generate random charts. Pretty certain the story is the same from roughly 1955. Real terms increase / proportional decrease.

Which is what Enigmatically said.

If only we had a resident, shy, expert who could help us.

[RichardIC]

I'm losing track now. Is this the haggis thread, the weather thread, or the economic output thread?

[Enigmatically]

I used that graph because I found it easily. This article has one that goes back to 1948 if that helps.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/2 ... g_figures/

Of course, if you have any evidence to show that the position changed dramatically recently or in the 3 years before that graph then please do show.

None of this is to say however that manufacturing is more virtuous in any way than the service industries as some suggest. That article above points out that manufacturing is more volatile than primary or tertiary industries. And why would their decline case a reduction in defence spending?
Defence has itself got far more technologically complex, far more than most, even on here, appreciate, so much of what goes into building a warship, such as an aircraft carrier ( I am trying to bring it back on track) is along way removed from the traditional metal-bashing.