Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[jonas]

Defence Committee meeting Tuesday 15th sept. Progress on F35 and Carrier strike. Parliamentlive tv starts at 1315. :-

https://committees.parliament.uk/commit ... rogrammes/

[cpu121]

Does anybody know what the reason is that she cant be "stored up" so she does not have to return to her homeport so speedily? But then again they will be getting more harbor maneuvering practice

Offloading temporary personnel/equipment on board for shakedown checks only? (technicians checking equipment functioning properly/tweaking adjustments etc).

[SKB]

Ordnance?
Nuclear weapons?
Covid test kits?
Another countries jets?!

[serge750]

Well there was a take off by a F35 in the harbour so why not a vertical landing

[bobp]

Also a special delivery is scheduled.

Weapons perhaps?

[Bring Deeps]

If they are saying the largest airgroup since Hermes this would imply it is more than a CVS every carried. What was the peak load of Invincible during the Falklands?

It was a slow day so I did a bit of digging into the numbers of Harriers embarked on HMS Invincible and HMS Hermes during the Falklands War. In short:

Invincible started with 8 and got 4 more on 19 May 1982. Due to losses the maximum number ever on board was 10 from 19-29 May 1982.

Hermes started with 12 and got 4 more Sea Harriers on 18 May and 4 more RAF Harriers on the same day. One more RAF Harrier arrived on 19 May and another on 20 May. Again due to losses the maximum number ever on board was 21 on 20 May. An RAF Harrier was lost the next day and 21 was never exceeded despite four more reinforcements arriving in two batches of two on 1 June and 8 June 1982.

As Tempest414 pointed out in the summer of 1983 there were 22 Harriers on board (for Exercise Mallet Blow which followed Exercise Ocean Safari.

That is the peacetime record.

[Timmymagic]

Ordnance?

QE will need some onboard for JW as apparently it includes both inert and live weapons releases. Must be a very limited number as they're not keen on moving munitions onboard in Portsmouth and as far as I'm aware the new munitions facility at Loch Striven ihas only just started its big re-build.

There is always the possibility that they RAS some over from Fort Vic at some point in the exercise (and she has just been in to DM Crombie...)

[Tempest414]

In 1983 Hermes airwing was 32 aircraft carried 22 Harriers and 10 SeaKing so with 15 F-35's QE will at some point need to carry 17+ helicopters to beat that

[R686]

In 1983 Hermes airwing was 32 aircraft carried 22 Harriers and 10 SeaKing so with 15 F-35's QE will at some point need to carry 17+ helicopters to beat that

The Question is would they need too considering that I have seen talk of up to 10 Chooks when not operating as a strike carrier at the lower end of the fully kitted troop capacity those ten can move 330 troops concurrently compared to 280 if the same number operated off Hermes

[inch]

Thought there only going to be 15 f35 and 6 helos or am I missing something ?.not bad tbh ,gots their work cut out even with them numbers ,it's a long slow learning curve I guess

[Tempest414]

Thought there only going to be 15 f35 and 6 helos or am I missing something ?.not bad tbh ,gots their work cut out even with them numbers ,it's a long slow learning curve I guess

The above is based on a big statement made in a tweet

[Bring Deeps]

In 1983 Hermes airwing was 32 aircraft carried 22 Harriers and 10 SeaKing so with 15 F-35's QE will at some point need to carry 17+ helicopters to beat that

I don't suppose it is a coincidence that 21 aircraft is more than the Invincible class could carry and so it is a symbolic milestone for the RN.

Who knows when or if the QNLZ class will ever embark more than the 16 fixed wing (presumably UK owned) jets that were on Invincible in 1998 or the combined airwing of 32 that was on Hermes in 1983.

[Tempest414]

In 1983 Hermes airwing was 32 aircraft carried 22 Harriers and 10 SeaKing so with 15 F-35's QE will at some point need to carry 17+ helicopters to beat that

I don't suppose it is a coincidence that 21 aircraft is more than the Invincible class could carry and so it is a symbolic milestone for the RN.

Who knows when or if the QNLZ class will ever embark more than the 16 fixed wing (presumably UK owned) jets that were on Invincible in 1998 or the combined airwing of 32 that was on Hermes in 1983.

following the Falklands war a typical airwing for a Invincible class was 3 AEW and 9 ASW Seaking and 9 Sea Harrier = 21 aircraft

[inch]

Just to throw a spanner in the mix ,if only ever going to be smaller numbers onboard in reality should they have built so big ,yes I know by the argument about was designed to facilitate and generate so many sorties etc and the saving scale of bigger etc but in reality if only ever going to Carry so much less than was Designed for 99% of her life why bother ? And yes it's early days and going to take time to build up aircraft numbers etc etc ,but will still only deploy 99% time with less after that .yes I know we got them now so mute point I quess now ,and great looking they are too

[Roders96]

Just to throw a spanner in the mix ,if only ever going to be smaller numbers onboard in reality should they have built so big ,yes I know by the argument about was designed to facilitate and generate so many sorties etc and the saving scale of bigger etc but in reality if only ever going to Carry so much less than was Designed for 99% of her life why bother ? And yes it's early days and going to take time to build up aircraft numbers etc etc ,but will still only deploy 99% time with less after that .yes I know we got them now so mute point I quess now ,and great looking they are too

It's a legitimate perspective, but it depends on embarked air wings only ever being in smaller numbers.

10 years can change alot, we build carriers every 50.

Might be a space force landing pad by the end.

[SKB]

13:45 - QE & tugs now entering the Solent, east of Ryde, IOW
14:08 - QE passed Round Tower & Fort Blockhouse.

[inch]

The only other idea I could suggest to regularly increase numbers is to have all UK f35b assigned to one carrier and the other carrier assigned a northern NATO carrier manned by f35b jets from Norway ,Dutch , Belgium USA etc ,yes I know Norway ,Dutch and Belgium don't have f35b but thats where we suggest to them we supply the ship you supply the aircraft ,so all these 3northan NATO countries are in the carrier game ,no point Italy,Spain ,Germany and France .they either don't operate f35 or got there own ships for carrier operations .just a suggestion folks

[SKB]

Also a special delivery is scheduled.

Clue: Good to have, not good to receive.

QE is home again, at Princess Royal Jetty.
Coincidence: All Phalanx seem to have been fitted alongside PRJ for both carriers.
Would the USMC be happy embarking 10 F-35B on a carrier with only two Phalanx?
Maybe QE is getting her third Phalanx this week, the 'special delivery' ?

[inch]

You could be right but how long does it take to install phalanx ?... Just thought from my last post above if assign a carrier to nato northan as I suggested maybe we could free up our other commitments so more escorts available just for our carrier even if not available all year round ,the other carrier would take up when we in refit ,plus with cash shortage as we all know going to happen it's kinda making a cut to suit our cloth till better finances ?

[Ron5]

Would the USMC be happy embarking 10 F-35B on a carrier with only two Phalanx?

For an exercise?? Sure.

[serge750]

Just to throw a spanner in the mix ,if only ever going to be smaller numbers onboard in reality should they have built so big ,yes I know by the argument about was designed to facilitate and generate so many sorties etc and the saving scale of bigger etc but in reality if only ever going to Carry so much less than was Designed for 99% of her life why bother ? And yes it's early days and going to take time to build up aircraft numbers etc etc ,but will still only deploy 99% time with less after that .yes I know we got them now so mute point I quess now ,and great looking they are too

When they were designed it seemed like the RN was in a good place anticipating they would get the airwing needed, but the 2010 sdsr messed everything up badly, how many T23 & T22 were cut...

Interesting idea as having a QEC as a north atlantic carrier with a multi national airwing, would all the other nations be willing to have such small fleets ( maybe 12 each ) of the B version? would be good for co-operation though, 4 assigned from each nation along with 4 from the uk ? just like with the usmc

[Jake1992]

Just to throw a spanner in the mix ,if only ever going to be smaller numbers onboard in reality should they have built so big ,yes I know by the argument about was designed to facilitate and generate so many sorties etc and the saving scale of bigger etc but in reality if only ever going to Carry so much less than was Designed for 99% of her life why bother ? And yes it's early days and going to take time to build up aircraft numbers etc etc ,but will still only deploy 99% time with less after that .yes I know we got them now so mute point I quess now ,and great looking they are too

When they were designed it seemed like the RN was in a good place anticipating they would get the airwing needed, but the 2010 sdsr messed everything up badly, how many T23 & T22 were cut...

Interesting idea as having a QEC as a north atlantic carrier with a multi national airwing, would all the other nations be willing to have such small fleets ( maybe 12 each ) of the B version? would be good for co-operation though, 4 assigned from each nation along with 4 from the uk ? just like with the usmc

The expected path for the RN when the QEs were designed was that they’d end up with 12 T45s ( replacing the T42 one for one ) and 20 T26 ( replacing the then 16 T23s and 4 T22s like for like ) then Blair started the cuts selling 3 T23s and the crash follow SRD 2010 cut the T22s.

I can’t see nations that are not already planning F35B purchases getting any at all but we could see Italy and Spain putting a few towards an air group now and then.

[serge750]

Thanks jake 1992, the RN would of been in a good place with that plan !! & maybe if the sea harriers were not disbanded in 2006? we may of had a few RN owned F35b for the QEC with fuller decks ...but the crap well n truly hit the fan

Still glad the QEC didn't get cut ( due to the contract ) even though they are not running at full potential yet, by the mid to late 2020's the QEC will look fuller

[inch]

Cheers folks, just running the idea not like they going to ring me and ask my input the powers that be lol,was just trying to think of a way to cut back that we all know that's coming ,maybe free up a few escorts from our other NATO duties by in exchange supplying a carrier but still protecting our home interests without having to sell one ,but also enabling all our f35 to fully equip our duty carrier ie 36 f35b in time of course .but I get your drift other f35 operators might not want operate from a carrier ,AHH well back to sleep for me lol

[Ron5]

It was that f**wit Osborne that savagely cut the UK military with no thought to consequences in support of his daft financial ideas. And lied about it to both parliament and the electorate. And did so with the full blessing and backing of the other f**wit Cameron.

No doubt in the fullness of time their contributions will be recognized with a Lordship like that other serial liar Hammond.

Unfortunately their ideas are still strong in Boris's circle.

Oh man this is sooo off topic, I'll be crucified