Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

Ron5 wrote:Very priviliged to say that my Brother and I had an identical view as that yesterday afternoon as we took a trip in a Westland Wasp, ex RN XT787, from Winchester.
You are indeed a lucky person to fly in a Wasp. My best flight ever and still is was in the back of a Buccaneer in 1965
operating some instrumentation. The flight was from an Airfield called Holme on Spalding moor and was owned by Hawker Sidelly Aviation. We went out to Spurn Point at the mouth of the Humber and dropped to 200ft above the water whilst i ran the tests then we returned to the airfield safe and sound. I was just 17 at the time.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

bobp wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Very priviliged to say that my Brother and I had an identical view as that yesterday afternoon as we took a trip in a Westland Wasp, ex RN XT787, from Winchester.
You are indeed a lucky person to fly in a Wasp. My best flight ever and still is was in the back of a Buccaneer in 1965
operating some instrumentation. The flight was from an Airfield called Holme on Spalding moor and was owned by Hawker Sidelly Aviation. We went out to Spurn Point at the mouth of the Humber and dropped to 200ft above the water whilst i ran the tests then we returned to the airfield safe and sound. I was just 17 at the time.
You tooo!! You're killing me ... :D

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Tempest414
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

Ron5 wrote:You tooo!! You're killing me ...
Loads of great rides to be had in the US

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Tempest414
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

bobp wrote:You are indeed a lucky person to fly in a Wasp. My best flight ever and still is was in the back of a Buccaneer in 1965
operating some instrumentation. The flight was from an Airfield called Holme on Spalding moor and was owned by Hawker Sidelly Aviation. We went out to Spurn Point at the mouth of the Humber and dropped to 200ft above the water whilst i ran the tests then we returned to the airfield safe and sound. I was just 17 at the time.
Was you working for Hawker or a cadet that got a ride . I have had Cadets get flights in F-4 , Tornado F-3 , Harrier , Hawks my old mans Sqn gave rides in Lightning T4/5

bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

Tempest414 wrote:Was you working for Hawker
Yes I served an apprenticeship with them, in the electrical test department, doing instrumentation work and building some of the control panels.

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

With Japan, South Korea and now even Singapore set to operate F-35B’s, I wonder if we’ll ever see them grace the decks of our carriers. Japan and South Korea would be more likely as they’re aspiring to operate theirs off their own carriers (IIRC) but it would be nice to see Singaporean ones on deck for future FPDA exercises.

dmereifield
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

Here's hoping!

Repulse
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Repulse »

The Armchair Soldier wrote: Singaporean ones on deck for future FPDA exercises.
Given the rumblings about a carrier being based (I suspect part time) out of Singapore, then there is a real possibility.

As an aside, I read in this months Warship World that there is a rumour the third F35B UK squadron will be FAA not RAF (though I’m sure will have RAF pilots). If there are two FAA squadrons, one assigned to each carrier, then the RAF one can be used to strengthen as needed (or used for land operations).

Would love to see each with 18 a/c (probably needing 72 F35B a/c overall with the O/C and test a/c), but fear we are destined for 48 a/c.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Scimitar54
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

HERE’s hoping that the fourth F35b squadron will be FAA as well. :mrgreen:

Repulse
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Repulse »

Scimitar54 wrote:HERE’s hoping that the fourth F35b squadron will be FAA as well. :mrgreen:
Agree, but seems more distant than ever. The only option with 48 a/c would be to have four 9 a/c squadrons, two CAP and two strike. Might not be the worse option - could then operate one QE in an ASW role (with one CAP squadron) and another QE in a Strike role (one CAP and one Strike squadron plus other allied F35b a/c) with a Strike Squadron for ground bases operations or to strengthen one of the carriers.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Repulse wrote:
The Armchair Soldier wrote: Singaporean ones on deck for future FPDA exercises.
Given the rumblings about a carrier being based (I suspect part time) out of Singapore, then there is a real possibility.

As an aside, I read in the months Warship World that there is a rumour the third F35B UK squadron will be FAA not RAF (though I’m sure will have RAF pilots). If there are two FAA squadrons, one assigned to each carrier, then the RAF one can be used to strengthen as needed (or used for land operations).

Would love to see each with 18 a/c (probably needing 72 F35B a/c overall with the O/C and test a/c), but fear we are destined for 48 a/c.
Scimitar54 wrote:HERE’s hoping that the fourth F35b squadron will be FAA as well. :mrgreen:
My guess is that is highly unlikely (the 4th squadron being FAA). I think there is a broad consensus in the UK military that there should be the UK capability to deploy a carrier on a fairly regular basis with 3 UK F-35B squadrons (i.e. 36 aircraft) and leave the RAF with one F-35B squadron to deploy to a land base. I think that implies a total full life fleet with OCU of maybe 80-90 aircraft leaving the UK with the task of appeasing the USA for reneging on the commitment to a purchase of 138 F-35's (yes it really does matter).

Whether that leads to an order for 138 minus 90 (40?) F-35A's, to keep Uncle Sam happy, I doubt very, very, much but I'm often wrong. That would cost a lot of money (50million each?) and that money would have to come out of the Tempest budget.

Aethulwulf
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Aethulwulf »

For that reason, I expect the UK will announce the purchase of a further 20-40 F35s, while still leaving open the possibility of more purchases later and keeping to the 138 total in theory.

Only if / when the US decides to cut the numbers it is buying will it become politically acceptable for the UK to do the same.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Repulse »

A 70-90 F35b fleet would be great, making the CEPP something serious.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Aethulwulf wrote:Only if / when the US decides to cut the numbers it is buying will it become politically acceptable for the UK to do the same.
With the USMC cutting back its F-35B plans, I wonder if that's already happened or at least cracked open the door. Maybe large purchases of something else could offset? P-8, JLTV, MQ-9, spring to mind.

bobp
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

I think the UK will now wait until Block 4 comes off the production line before ordering more, wishful thinking is 48 more Block 4 plus upgrading some of the original batch of 48 to Block 4.

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

I still think the best way to keep up the 138 buy is after 2023 or is it 2026 now ? ( 48 F35b ) is to buy 3 x F35b a year for 30 years or so that means 138 over approx 40 years, initially wind the operational avaliable planes up to 60-70 ( early 2030's ) then replace all the early model planes with new builds ( don't bother upgrading them ) surely 3 planes a year won't break the bank & would keep uncle sam happy with the 138 total.

Would keep the carriers with planes for the RN with RAF backup until they decomision

Also would help to keep the focus/money on project tempest for the RAF

Max Jones
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

serge750 wrote:I still think the best way to keep up the 138 buy is after 2023 or is it 2026 now ? ( 48 F35b ) is to buy 3 x F35b a year for 30 years or so that means 138 over approx 40 years, initially wind the operational avaliable planes up to 60-70 ( early 2030's ) then replace all the early model planes with new builds ( don't bother upgrading them ) surely 3 planes a year won't break the bank & would keep uncle sam happy with the 138 total.

Would keep the carriers with planes for the RN with RAF backup until they decomision

Also would help to keep the focus/money on project tempest for the RAF
Are we sure F-35Bs are going to have the same value in 70+ years as they will today, though? They are certainly incredibly capable aircraft but if we are still introducing them into service in 40 years, there's a lot that could change there and even more in double that with how technology is changing. I'm sure they will have some use but it seems a bit long-term to be thinking about aircraft in service in the latter half of the century based on the needs of the nation after the first fifth.

serge750
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

A very valid point, the most recent F16 is a lot more capable then the original, so hopefully they will be upgraded to keep their prowess, also im sure in 20 years time they will be a lot cheaper, but it would keep the commitment of 138, but such a long way a way....

Personally i cant really see the MOD buying many after the tempest project spawns an offspring & starting to get in service 2040?

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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Feel free to talk about F-35 numbers more generally in the F-35 topic. Let’s bump this discussion back to the carriers. ;)


Bring Deeps
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Bring Deeps »

Watching that video gave me an unpleasant 9/11 vibe. I hope the security services/MOD have considered that risk.

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

That cruiseship had no passengers aboard it (because of COVID) during its time in Portsmouth. It merely came in to change and repatriate its crew.

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

Some of Brother's pics from our flight, not brilliant but gives an impression of how close we were. He did a good video but it's probably too big for this board. 8-)
QNLZ02.jpg
QNLZ01.jpg
PWLSQNLZ02.jpg
PWLSQNLZ01.jpg
PWLS01.jpg
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Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

The last photo is excellent with HMS Victory in the background.

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

Click to enlarge:
Image
(Photo: S.Wenham/NavyLookout) 30th/31st July 2020
@HMSPWLS received her second Phalanx mount yesterday (Port quarter)
Image
(@WarshipPorn) 31st July 2020

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